Video·MedCram - Medical Lectures Explained CLEARLY·11 min read·June 2026

Dr. Rhonda Patrick breaks down the Finnish research on sauna frequency, cardiovascular protection, and why regular heat exposure belongs alongside sleep and exercise as a longevity practice.

What the Finnish Studies Actually Show

The research base for sauna benefits is grounded primarily in large Finnish population studies — longitudinal, observational cohorts that followed thousands of people across years of regular practice. These are not small clinical trials. They are the kind of population-scale investigations that reveal how daily habits shape the arc of human health over decades. What makes this body of evidence compelling is not any single finding, but the dose-dependent pattern that runs through all of it. The more frequently a person uses the sauna, the more robust the protective associations become.

At two to three sessions per week, sauna users are 22% less likely to die from sudden cardiac death compared to those who use it just once a week. Step up to four to seven sessions per week, and that figure rises to 63% — a reduction that rivals the protective effect of some of the most widely recommended cardiovascular interventions. All-cause mortality — death from any cause — drops by 40% in the most frequent group. These are not marginal shifts; they are the kind of effect sizes that belong in the same conversation as exercise, diet, and sleep.

Brain health follows the same dose-dependent arc. People using the sauna two to three times weekly show roughly a 20% lower risk of dementia and Alzheimer's disease compared to once-weekly users. Those in the four-to-seven-times-per-week group see that reduction climb to between 60 and 66%. The mechanisms linking heat exposure to brain protection are still being studied — improved cerebral blood flow and reduced inflammatory burden are among the leading pathways — but the outcomes are consistent and profound: regular sauna use appears to preserve the cognitive vitality and clarity that sustain a full life.

These figures reframe how we should think about sauna practice. This is not recovery ritual only, nor a tool for sore muscles alone. Placed alongside deliberate exercise, quality sleep, and sound nutrition, frequent sauna use emerges as a foundational component of longevity — a practice that compresses disease risk, extends the healthy years, and improves the quality of the life you live rather than simply its length. The data supports it; the Finnish culture built around daily sauna reflects an intuition that preceded the science by generations.

Much of this evidence flows from a research program centered at the University of Eastern Finland — scientists who have examined sauna exposure across cardiovascular, neurological, and metabolic outcomes with consistent rigor over decades. Their work has transformed how preventive medicine views heat exposure. The Finnish tradition of daily sauna is not merely cultural custom; it is, in the light of this research, one of the most thoroughly studied lifestyle practices in modern health science.

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Sauna Benefits Deep Dive and Optimal Use with Dr Rhonda Patrick MedCram

00:00dr patrick you are a world expert on the dr patrick you are a world expert on the many potential benefits of sauna use many potential benefits of sauna use many potential benefits of sauna use from better cardiovascular fitness to a from better cardiovascular fitness to a from better cardiovascular fitness to a lower risk of dementia to better mood lower risk of dementia to better mood lower risk of dementia to better mood mental health and immunity mental health and immunity mental health and immunity and you're also an expert on the and you're also an expert on the and you're also an expert on the specific ways that people can use saunas specific ways that people can use saunas specific ways that people can use saunas or hot baths in many cases to maximize or hot baths in many cases to maximize or hot baths in many cases to maximize these benefits what temperature should these benefits what temperature should these benefits what temperature should the sauna be how long should we stay in the sauna be how long should we stay in the sauna be how long should we stay in it how often should we use it so really it how often should we use it so really it how often should we use it so really excited to jump into this but i want to excited to jump into this but i want to excited to jump into this but i want to give you a brief introduction first give you a brief introduction first give you a brief introduction first you have a phd in biomedical science you have a phd in biomedical science you have a phd in biomedical science you're published in a variety of you're published in a variety of you're published in a variety of reputable journals including an reputable journals including an reputable journals including an excellent recent publication on saunas excellent recent publication on saunas excellent recent publication on saunas that was very comprehensive that was very comprehensive that was very comprehensive and you're the co-founder of a popular and you're the co-founder of a popular and you're the co-founder of a popular website and youtube channel called found website and youtube channel called found website and youtube channel called found my fitness dr patrick welcome back to my fitness dr patrick welcome back to my fitness dr patrick welcome back to the show the show the show thank you kyle i'm really excited to be thank you kyle i'm really excited to be thank you kyle i'm really excited to be here and thank you for that here and thank you for that here and thank you for that very kind introduction i look forward to very kind introduction i look forward to very kind introduction i look forward to getting into as many details as possible getting into as many details as possible getting into as many details as possible about both the benefits and how we can

01:00about both the benefits and how we can about both the benefits and how we can effectively use saunas effectively use saunas effectively use saunas but first but first but first if you only had a couple minutes with if you only had a couple minutes with if you only had a couple minutes with someone who was totally new to saunas someone who was totally new to saunas someone who was totally new to saunas how would you briefly summarize the how would you briefly summarize the how would you briefly summarize the benefits benefits benefits well i would start with um well i would start with um well i would start with um a lot of the studies that have come out a lot of the studies that have come out a lot of the studies that have come out of finland which have been large you of finland which have been large you of finland which have been large you know very very large population-based know very very large population-based know very very large population-based studies these are observational studies studies these are observational studies studies these are observational studies where an association has been made where an association has been made where an association has been made and and and there have been quite a few that have there have been quite a few that have there have been quite a few that have found that frequent sauna use is found that frequent sauna use is found that frequent sauna use is associated with a associated with a associated with a lower risk of lower risk of lower risk of death from cardiovascular disease a death from cardiovascular disease a death from cardiovascular disease a lower risk of lower risk of sudden cardiac death or lower risk of sudden cardiac death or lower risk of sudden cardiac death or lower risk of coronary heart disease a lower risk of coronary heart disease a lower risk of coronary heart disease a lower risk of stroke a lower risk of dementia of stroke a lower risk of dementia of stroke a lower risk of dementia of alzheimer's disease and when i say a alzheimer's disease and when i say a alzheimer's disease and when i say a lower risk lower risk lower risk it it occurs in a dose-dependent manner it it occurs in a dose-dependent manner it it occurs in a dose-dependent manner so what that means is the more frequent so what that means is the more frequent so what that means is the more frequent the sauna bathing the more robust the the sauna bathing the more robust the the sauna bathing the more robust the the the the health benefits are so for example

02:00health benefits are so for example health benefits are so for example people that use the sauna two to three people that use the sauna two to three people that use the sauna two to three times a week times a week times a week are about 22 less likely to die from are about 22 less likely to die from are about 22 less likely to die from sudden cardiac death compared to people sudden cardiac death compared to people sudden cardiac death compared to people that only use the sauna one time a week that only use the sauna one time a week that only use the sauna one time a week but people that use the sauna four to but people that use the sauna four to but people that use the sauna four to seven times a week are 63 percent less seven times a week are 63 percent less seven times a week are 63 percent less likely to die from sudden cardiac death likely to die from sudden cardiac death likely to die from sudden cardiac death compared to people that use the sauna compared to people that use the sauna compared to people that use the sauna one time per week one time per week one time per week so there's a dose-dependent effect with so there's a dose-dependent effect with so there's a dose-dependent effect with more frequent sauna bathing more robust more frequent sauna bathing more robust more frequent sauna bathing more robust effects on cardiovascular health effects on cardiovascular health effects on cardiovascular health and i would say that to people that are and i would say that to people that are and i would say that to people that are not familiar with the sauna not familiar with the sauna not familiar with the sauna a lot of people think of it as a time to a lot of people think of it as a time to a lot of people think of it as a time to relax it's a very it's a it's a time to relax it's a very it's a it's a time to relax it's a very it's a it's a time to take some space out of your day and and take some space out of your day and and take some space out of your day and and and have it to yourself and have it to yourself and have it to yourself um so so there is an aspect of this um so so there is an aspect of this um so so there is an aspect of this relaxation almost a meditation type of relaxation almost a meditation type of relaxation almost a meditation type of um quality to to sauna bathing um quality to to sauna bathing um quality to to sauna bathing but there's also a very interesting but there's also a very interesting but there's also a very interesting aspect of it which is aspect of it which is aspect of it which is sauna use is essentially mimicking sauna use is essentially mimicking sauna use is essentially mimicking moderate aerobic cardiovascular exercise

03:00moderate aerobic cardiovascular exercise moderate aerobic cardiovascular exercise and so a lot of the same physiological and so a lot of the same physiological and so a lot of the same physiological responses that happen when you're responses that happen when you're responses that happen when you're exercising for example exercising for example exercising for example your heart rate elevates while you're your heart rate elevates while you're your heart rate elevates while you're exercising you elevate your core body exercising you elevate your core body exercising you elevate your core body temperature you get hot you start to temperature you get hot you start to temperature you get hot you start to sweat sweat sweat these are the same things that are these are the same things that are these are the same things that are occurring while someone is in the sauna occurring while someone is in the sauna occurring while someone is in the sauna so heart rate elevates it elevates to so heart rate elevates it elevates to so heart rate elevates it elevates to around 120 beats per minute around 120 beats per minute around 120 beats per minute you sweat your core body temperature is you sweat your core body temperature is you sweat your core body temperature is elevated elevated elevated after the sauna and after exercise and after the sauna and after exercise and after the sauna and after exercise and this has actually been compared head to this has actually been compared head to this has actually been compared head to head comparison of these two head comparison of these two head comparison of these two blood pressure is lower after sauna blood pressure is lower after sauna blood pressure is lower after sauna bathing or after exercise your resting bathing or after exercise your resting bathing or after exercise your resting heart rate is lower than before you did heart rate is lower than before you did heart rate is lower than before you did the exercise or before you started using the exercise or before you started using the exercise or before you started using the sauna the sauna the sauna so um i think that's also a really so um i think that's also a really so um i think that's also a really interesting aspect of sauna that most interesting aspect of sauna that most interesting aspect of sauna that most people are unfamiliar with that it's people are unfamiliar with that it's people are unfamiliar with that it's really sort of a really sort of a really sort of a mimicker of moderate intense mimicker of moderate intense mimicker of moderate intense cardiovascular exercise cardiovascular exercise cardiovascular exercise and then the other thing is is that and then the other thing is is that and then the other thing is is that there's there seems to be really

04:00there's there seems to be really there's there seems to be really profound effects on the brain and i profound effects on the brain and i profound effects on the brain and i don't think all the mechanisms have been don't think all the mechanisms have been don't think all the mechanisms have been teased out just yet we can certainly teased out just yet we can certainly teased out just yet we can certainly dive into some details but dive into some details but dive into some details but you know there's obviously a very you know there's obviously a very you know there's obviously a very strong link between cardiovascular strong link between cardiovascular strong link between cardiovascular health and brain function you know health and brain function you know health and brain function you know having proper blood flow to the brain is having proper blood flow to the brain is having proper blood flow to the brain is very important for for lowering dementia very important for for lowering dementia very important for for lowering dementia risk so there's definitely that aspect risk so there's definitely that aspect risk so there's definitely that aspect there there there but but but you know there's been some some you know there's been some some you know there's been some some observational studies looking at observational studies looking at observational studies looking at dementia risk and alzheimer's risk in dementia risk and alzheimer's risk in dementia risk and alzheimer's risk in sonobators and again it's a very dose sonobators and again it's a very dose sonobators and again it's a very dose dependent robust effect dependent robust effect dependent robust effect frequency matters and so people that use frequency matters and so people that use frequency matters and so people that use this on a two to three times a week this on a two to three times a week this on a two to three times a week you know they have some somewhere like a you know they have some somewhere like a you know they have some somewhere like a 20 percent lower dementia risk 20 lower 20 percent lower dementia risk 20 lower 20 percent lower dementia risk 20 lower alzheimer's risk more or less but using alzheimer's risk more or less but using alzheimer's risk more or less but using the sauna 4 to 7 times a week the sauna 4 to 7 times a week the sauna 4 to 7 times a week it's associated with between a 60 to 66 it's associated with between a 60 to 66 it's associated with between a 60 to 66 reduction in dementia and alzheimer's reduction in dementia and alzheimer's reduction in dementia and alzheimer's disease compared to people that use this disease compared to people that use this disease compared to people that use this on a one time a week on a one time a week on a one time a week so um it seems like you know four times so um it seems like you know four times so um it seems like you know four times a week is kind of the sweet spot and we

05:00a week is kind of the sweet spot and we a week is kind of the sweet spot and we can talk about all the details of that can talk about all the details of that can talk about all the details of that um in a little bit but um in a little bit but um in a little bit but but there's a lot of interest into why but there's a lot of interest into why but there's a lot of interest into why sauna use seems to help prevent sauna use seems to help prevent sauna use seems to help prevent neurodegenerative diseases like neurodegenerative diseases like neurodegenerative diseases like alzheimer's disease and dementia so um i alzheimer's disease and dementia so um i alzheimer's disease and dementia so um i certainly have some certainly have some certainly have some hypothesis and hypotheses i guess hypothesis and hypotheses i guess hypothesis and hypotheses i guess they're more than one so i'd love to they're more than one so i'd love to they're more than one so i'd love to dive into some of that but um i think dive into some of that but um i think dive into some of that but um i think that's a kind of a good start into the that's a kind of a good start into the that's a kind of a good start into the sauna oh and also all cause mortality sauna oh and also all cause mortality sauna oh and also all cause mortality that's a really big one too because that's a really big one too because that's a really big one too because you know there's been these studies you know there's been these studies you know there's been these studies these large population studies finding these large population studies finding these large population studies finding that people that use this on four to that people that use this on four to that people that use this on four to seven times a week have a 40 lower seven times a week have a 40 lower seven times a week have a 40 lower risk of dying from all causes of death risk of dying from all causes of death risk of dying from all causes of death um than people that use this on one time um than people that use this on one time um than people that use this on one time a week a week a week so um so um so um to me it really is is the beginning of to me it really is is the beginning of to me it really is is the beginning of understanding that you know sauna use understanding that you know sauna use understanding that you know sauna use seems to really be beneficial for our seems to really be beneficial for our seems to really be beneficial for our health and much like a lot of these health and much like a lot of these health and much like a lot of these lifestyle factors that that are well lifestyle factors that that are well lifestyle factors that that are well known to to modify our disease risk so

06:00known to to modify our disease risk so known to to modify our disease risk so exercise for example so you don't want exercise for example so you don't want exercise for example so you don't want to be sedentary good sleep to be sedentary good sleep to be sedentary good sleep um you know healthy diet meditation i um you know healthy diet meditation i um you know healthy diet meditation i think these are pretty common knowledge think these are pretty common knowledge think these are pretty common knowledge at this point at this point at this point to be beneficial for overall health to be beneficial for overall health to be beneficial for overall health and i think that and i think that and i think that sauna you should be up there i think it sauna you should be up there i think it sauna you should be up there i think it should be should be should be included in that in that sort of um you included in that in that sort of um you included in that in that sort of um you know bag of things know bag of things know bag of things that are known to improve what's called that are known to improve what's called that are known to improve what's called our health span our health span is our health span our health span is our health span our health span is it's it's basically compressing the it's it's basically compressing the it's it's basically compressing the diseases that we get into a shorter time diseases that we get into a shorter time diseases that we get into a shorter time period so it's essentially extending the period so it's essentially extending the period so it's essentially extending the youthful part of our life so you may not youthful part of our life so you may not youthful part of our life so you may not necessarily live necessarily live necessarily live you know x many years longer although you know x many years longer although you know x many years longer although you may if you don't get cancer earlier you may if you don't get cancer earlier you may if you don't get cancer earlier you'll probably end up not dying from you'll probably end up not dying from you'll probably end up not dying from cancer earlier but ultimately it's a cancer earlier but ultimately it's a cancer earlier but ultimately it's a health span improving your health spend health span improving your health spend health span improving your health spend is about improving the quality of your is about improving the quality of your is about improving the quality of your life not getting parkinson's disease not life not getting parkinson's disease not life not getting parkinson's disease not getting alzheimer's disease not getting getting alzheimer's disease not getting getting alzheimer's disease not getting cancer not getting cardiovascular

07:00cancer not getting cardiovascular cancer not getting cardiovascular disease type 2 diabetes and and having a disease type 2 diabetes and and having a disease type 2 diabetes and and having a better quality of life so that you're better quality of life so that you're better quality of life so that you're essentially enjoying your life and essentially enjoying your life and essentially enjoying your life and living living healthier for a longer living living healthier for a longer living living healthier for a longer period of time i do want to make sure to period of time i do want to make sure to period of time i do want to make sure to distinguish the difference between distinguish the difference between distinguish the difference between my publication on the sauna which was a my publication on the sauna which was a my publication on the sauna which was a a very comprehensive review article a very comprehensive review article a very comprehensive review article covering multiple aspects of sauna covering multiple aspects of sauna covering multiple aspects of sauna health health health and someone doing primary research where and someone doing primary research where and someone doing primary research where they're they're actually they're they're actually they're they're actually doing experiments and having people you doing experiments and having people you doing experiments and having people you know come into a sauna and measuring know come into a sauna and measuring know come into a sauna and measuring heart rate and blood pressure changes heart rate and blood pressure changes heart rate and blood pressure changes for example um so i am not doing those for example um so i am not doing those for example um so i am not doing those experiments and a lot of the research experiments and a lot of the research experiments and a lot of the research that has that has that has that has that has that has been done on the the health benefits of been done on the the health benefits of been done on the the health benefits of the sauna have actually come out of the sauna have actually come out of the sauna have actually come out of finland from dr yari laukanin's lab in finland from dr yari laukanin's lab in finland from dr yari laukanin's lab in eastern finland and so i just wanted to eastern finland and so i just wanted to eastern finland and so i just wanted to give him a little shout out because his give him a little shout out because his give him a little shout out because his work has been invaluable in in our work has been invaluable in in our work has been invaluable in in our understanding of the health benefits of understanding of the health benefits of understanding of the health benefits of the sauna well let's start by diving in the sauna well let's start by diving in

08:00the sauna well let's start by diving in a little bit deeper into the a little bit deeper into the a little bit deeper into the cardiovascular system because you cardiovascular system because you cardiovascular system because you mentioned there's some mentioned there's some mentioned there's some potentially excellent benefits from the potentially excellent benefits from the potentially excellent benefits from the sauna on the cardiovascular system sauna on the cardiovascular system sauna on the cardiovascular system so could you so could you so could you review what the cardiovascular system is review what the cardiovascular system is review what the cardiovascular system is briefly and then what's what's known briefly and then what's what's known briefly and then what's what's known about the sauna's impact on that and i about the sauna's impact on that and i about the sauna's impact on that and i think this is so important because think this is so important because think this is so important because um as you know it's right there neck and um as you know it's right there neck and um as you know it's right there neck and neck are cardiovascular disease and neck are cardiovascular disease and neck are cardiovascular disease and cancer as a number one and two killers cancer as a number one and two killers cancer as a number one and two killers of both men and women in the united of both men and women in the united of both men and women in the united states states states so what's known about the sauna's impact so what's known about the sauna's impact so what's known about the sauna's impact on the cardiovascular system on the cardiovascular system on the cardiovascular system well what's known about the impact so i well what's known about the impact so i well what's known about the impact so i mean i think generally speaking when mean i think generally speaking when mean i think generally speaking when people think about cardiovascular people think about cardiovascular people think about cardiovascular health health they think about their cholesterol they they think about their cholesterol they they think about their cholesterol they think about the health of their arteries think about the health of their arteries think about the health of their arteries they think about not having a bunch of they think about not having a bunch of they think about not having a bunch of plaques build up inside their arteries plaques build up inside their arteries plaques build up inside their arteries and block blood flow and oxygen from and block blood flow and oxygen from and block blood flow and oxygen from getting to different tissues it's getting to different tissues it's getting to different tissues it's definitely known that a lot of dietary definitely known that a lot of dietary definitely known that a lot of dietary and lifestyle factors can modify and lifestyle factors can modify and lifestyle factors can modify cardiovascular disease risk one of the

09:00cardiovascular disease risk one of the cardiovascular disease risk one of the best ones being exercise best ones being exercise best ones being exercise i don't know that there's anything i don't know that there's anything i don't know that there's anything better better better for cardiovascular health than than for cardiovascular health than than for cardiovascular health than than exercise so um exercise so um exercise so um you know the fact that you know the fact that you know the fact that sauna use sauna use sauna use mimics moderate intensity cardiovascular mimics moderate intensity cardiovascular mimics moderate intensity cardiovascular exercise as i as i mentioned a moment exercise as i as i mentioned a moment exercise as i as i mentioned a moment ago ago ago is is is it's just sort of like this proof of it's just sort of like this proof of it's just sort of like this proof of principle that you know sauna sauna is principle that you know sauna sauna is principle that you know sauna sauna is going to be good for cardiovascular going to be good for cardiovascular going to be good for cardiovascular health the same sort of physiological health the same sort of physiological health the same sort of physiological changes are happening you know you have changes are happening you know you have changes are happening you know you have an increased an increased an increased blood flow to the skin blood flow to the skin blood flow to the skin also to the muscles so that's to help also to the muscles so that's to help also to the muscles so that's to help facilitate sweating um plasma volume facilitate sweating um plasma volume facilitate sweating um plasma volume increases heart rate elevates during increases heart rate elevates during increases heart rate elevates during sauna bathing you're you're getting hot sauna bathing you're you're getting hot sauna bathing you're you're getting hot you know you're getting hot and sweating you know you're getting hot and sweating you know you're getting hot and sweating and you're you're doing the same thing and you're you're doing the same thing and you're you're doing the same thing that's happening while you're exercising that's happening while you're exercising that's happening while you're exercising and changes in blood pressure go down as and changes in blood pressure go down as and changes in blood pressure go down as well afterwards just like exercise well afterwards just like exercise well afterwards just like exercise so i think that that is partly probably so i think that that is partly probably so i think that that is partly probably responsible for some of the responsible for some of the responsible for some of the cardiovascular benefits cardiovascular benefits cardiovascular benefits dr yari laukanin and his colleagues have dr yari laukanin and his colleagues have dr yari laukanin and his colleagues have looked at so many different aspects of

10:00looked at so many different aspects of looked at so many different aspects of cardiovascular health with respect to cardiovascular health with respect to cardiovascular health with respect to sauna bathing and they found time and sauna bathing and they found time and sauna bathing and they found time and time again whether you're talking about time again whether you're talking about time again whether you're talking about sudden cardiac death whether you're sudden cardiac death whether you're sudden cardiac death whether you're talking about death from cardiovascular talking about death from cardiovascular talking about death from cardiovascular disease or coronary heart disease disease or coronary heart disease disease or coronary heart disease and even talking about stroke risk and even talking about stroke risk and even talking about stroke risk stroke risk is also significantly stroke risk is also significantly stroke risk is also significantly lowered something in the realm of like lowered something in the realm of like lowered something in the realm of like 40 lower for people that use this on a 40 lower for people that use this on a 40 lower for people that use this on a four to seven times a week versus once a four to seven times a week versus once a four to seven times a week versus once a week so there's a really large body of week so there's a really large body of week so there's a really large body of evidence that suggests that sauna use evidence that suggests that sauna use evidence that suggests that sauna use does mimic a moderate aerobic activity does mimic a moderate aerobic activity does mimic a moderate aerobic activity and and this is potentially why and and this is potentially why and and this is potentially why it's beneficial for cardiac you know for it's beneficial for cardiac you know for it's beneficial for cardiac you know for cardiovascular health excellent and does cardiovascular health excellent and does cardiovascular health excellent and does it lower cholesterol and hypertension as it lower cholesterol and hypertension as it lower cholesterol and hypertension as well regular sauna use well regular sauna use well regular sauna use hypertension yes like so there's been um hypertension yes like so there's been um hypertension yes like so there's been um there's been some studies looking at there's been some studies looking at there's been some studies looking at hypertension risk so this again these hypertension risk so this again these hypertension risk so this again these are observational studies and again it's

11:00are observational studies and again it's are observational studies and again it's one of those dose-dependent effects one of those dose-dependent effects one of those dose-dependent effects where you see people that use the sauna where you see people that use the sauna where you see people that use the sauna two to three times a week they have like two to three times a week they have like two to three times a week they have like a 24 lower risk of hypert hypertension a 24 lower risk of hypert hypertension a 24 lower risk of hypert hypertension versus people that use the sauna four to versus people that use the sauna four to versus people that use the sauna four to seven times a week who have about a 46 seven times a week who have about a 46 seven times a week who have about a 46 lower risk of um hypertension lower risk of um hypertension lower risk of um hypertension but there's also been just like but there's also been just like but there's also been just like studies where they've looked at a single studies where they've looked at a single studies where they've looked at a single sauna use again where they just when a sauna use again where they just when a sauna use again where they just when a person goes into the sauna uses it for person goes into the sauna uses it for person goes into the sauna uses it for you know 20 minutes and they measure you know 20 minutes and they measure you know 20 minutes and they measure blood pressure before and after the blood pressure before and after the blood pressure before and after the sauna sauna sauna and one even just a single sauna use and one even just a single sauna use and one even just a single sauna use lowers blood pressure so both systolic lowers blood pressure so both systolic lowers blood pressure so both systolic and diastolic blood pressure after the and diastolic blood pressure after the and diastolic blood pressure after the sauna bathing similar to what exercise sauna bathing similar to what exercise sauna bathing similar to what exercise does and so i think does and so i think does and so i think that helps sort of establish causality that helps sort of establish causality that helps sort of establish causality because there's always a question because there's always a question because there's always a question about about about associations and how much association associations and how much association associations and how much association how much can you you know derive how much can you you know derive how much can you you know derive causality from these associations when causality from these associations when causality from these associations when it comes to observational studies it comes to observational studies it comes to observational studies you mentioned how you mentioned how you mentioned how you know sauna use mimics exercise in

12:00you know sauna use mimics exercise in you know sauna use mimics exercise in many ways moderate intensity exercise many ways moderate intensity exercise many ways moderate intensity exercise so so so with regard to that can it also just with regard to that can it also just with regard to that can it also just improve overall fitness and endurance as improve overall fitness and endurance as improve overall fitness and endurance as well well well that's a great question uh we cover this that's a great question uh we cover this that's a great question uh we cover this in in in my co-author teresa johnson and i our my co-author teresa johnson and i our my co-author teresa johnson and i our review article review article review article that we published that we published that we published last year in experimental gerontology last year in experimental gerontology last year in experimental gerontology and and i'd say um so far the evidence seems to i'd say um so far the evidence seems to i'd say um so far the evidence seems to suggest that sauna use may improve suggest that sauna use may improve suggest that sauna use may improve endurance exercise endurance exercise endurance exercise um there's there's been a variety of um there's there's been a variety of um there's there's been a variety of studies that have looked either at studies that have looked either at studies that have looked either at runners for example that use the sauna runners for example that use the sauna runners for example that use the sauna and then they're able to improve their and then they're able to improve their and then they're able to improve their time and running distance time and running distance time and running distance um there have been some studies looking um there have been some studies looking um there have been some studies looking at people wearing a sauna suit so this at people wearing a sauna suit so this at people wearing a sauna suit so this is like a type of clothing that's put on is like a type of clothing that's put on is like a type of clothing that's put on that sort of mimics the sauna because it that sort of mimics the sauna because it that sort of mimics the sauna because it makes you you know warm up and so people makes you you know warm up and so people makes you you know warm up and so people train in that sauna suit um and that's train in that sauna suit um and that's train in that sauna suit um and that's been shown to help improve endurance been shown to help improve endurance been shown to help improve endurance but i think there's but i think there's but i think there's there's a lot of evidence out there

13:00there's a lot of evidence out there there's a lot of evidence out there looking at just acclimating yourself to looking at just acclimating yourself to looking at just acclimating yourself to heat and so you know when you're getting heat and so you know when you're getting heat and so you know when you're getting in the sauna in the sauna in the sauna there there's these physiological there there's these physiological there there's these physiological changes that start to occur where your changes that start to occur where your changes that start to occur where your body starts to adapt so like if body starts to adapt so like if body starts to adapt so like if someone's never used the sauna before someone's never used the sauna before someone's never used the sauna before it's really hard to stay and we haven't it's really hard to stay and we haven't it's really hard to stay and we haven't talked about temperature duration yet in talked about temperature duration yet in talked about temperature duration yet in any of these you know studies that i've any of these you know studies that i've any of these you know studies that i've referred to with respect to referred to with respect to referred to with respect to cardiovascular health and all-cause cardiovascular health and all-cause cardiovascular health and all-cause mortality for example but um you know if mortality for example but um you know if mortality for example but um you know if you're getting in a hot sauna that's 175 you're getting in a hot sauna that's 175 you're getting in a hot sauna that's 175 degrees fahrenheit and you've never done degrees fahrenheit and you've never done degrees fahrenheit and you've never done that before that before that before and certainly if you're not someone and certainly if you're not someone and certainly if you're not someone that's physically active you know people that's physically active you know people that's physically active you know people that are physically active also are sort that are physically active also are sort that are physically active also are sort of adapted to heat because they're of adapted to heat because they're of adapted to heat because they're elevating their core body temperature elevating their core body temperature elevating their core body temperature when they're physically active and so when they're physically active and so when they're physically active and so they're a little more heat acclimated they're a little more heat acclimated they're a little more heat acclimated so you take a person that's not you know so you take a person that's not you know so you take a person that's not you know a person that's sedentary not acclimated a person that's sedentary not acclimated a person that's sedentary not acclimated to heat and it's going to be hard for to heat and it's going to be hard for to heat and it's going to be hard for them to stay in that sauna hot sauna for them to stay in that sauna hot sauna for them to stay in that sauna hot sauna for more than five minutes more than five minutes more than five minutes um but as um but as um but as time goes on and um time goes on and um time goes on and um as people start to use the sauna more

14:00as people start to use the sauna more as people start to use the sauna more and become more acclimated and become more acclimated and become more acclimated then people start to sweat at a lower then people start to sweat at a lower then people start to sweat at a lower core body temperature and this helps core body temperature and this helps core body temperature and this helps facilitate cooling down and so they're facilitate cooling down and so they're facilitate cooling down and so they're able to tolerate it more able to tolerate it more able to tolerate it more and they also there's some other and they also there's some other and they also there's some other adaptations that we can talk about adaptations that we can talk about adaptations that we can talk about at the molecular level that occur as at the molecular level that occur as at the molecular level that occur as well and and so i think that um well and and so i think that um well and and so i think that um it all comes down to basically it all comes down to basically it all comes down to basically if you are adapted to heat well then if you are adapted to heat well then if you are adapted to heat well then when you're doing your marathon when you're doing your marathon when you're doing your marathon you're going to be you know more heat you're going to be you know more heat you're going to be you know more heat adapted because if you're used to using adapted because if you're used to using adapted because if you're used to using the sauna and you're you know you're the sauna and you're you know you're the sauna and you're you know you're sweating at a lower core body sweating at a lower core body sweating at a lower core body temperature and all these physiological temperature and all these physiological temperature and all these physiological changes are happening then that's going changes are happening then that's going changes are happening then that's going to affect you when you're also elevating to affect you when you're also elevating to affect you when you're also elevating your core body temperature through your core body temperature through your core body temperature through another modality that modality being another modality that modality being another modality that modality being running or exercise you know fill in the running or exercise you know fill in the running or exercise you know fill in the blank type of exercise so um you know it blank type of exercise so um you know it blank type of exercise so um you know it kind of makes sense when you think about kind of makes sense when you think about kind of makes sense when you think about it definitely it definitely it definitely well shifting gears to you mentioned the well shifting gears to you mentioned the well shifting gears to you mentioned the the mental and um the mental and um the mental and um potential benefits that protect against potential benefits that protect against potential benefits that protect against neurodegenerative diseases like dementia

15:00neurodegenerative diseases like dementia neurodegenerative diseases like dementia or alzheimer's or alzheimer's or alzheimer's that's really you know once i saw the that's really you know once i saw the that's really you know once i saw the research on that that's something that research on that that's something that research on that that's something that keeps me using the sauna regularly even keeps me using the sauna regularly even keeps me using the sauna regularly even if i don't feel like it or if i don't if i don't feel like it or if i don't if i don't feel like it or if i don't have time is that have time is that have time is that potential significant reduction in potential significant reduction in potential significant reduction in dementia risk so could you talk a little dementia risk so could you talk a little dementia risk so could you talk a little bit more about bit more about bit more about that research and um yeah what's known that research and um yeah what's known that research and um yeah what's known about protection from neurodegenerative about protection from neurodegenerative about protection from neurodegenerative diseases diseases diseases well the research looking at sauna use well the research looking at sauna use well the research looking at sauna use and specifically it's looked at and specifically it's looked at and specifically it's looked at alzheimer's disease and dementia alzheimer's disease and dementia alzheimer's disease and dementia it's really limited to just it's really limited to just it's really limited to just observational data in which case sauna observational data in which case sauna observational data in which case sauna use is associated with a much lower risk use is associated with a much lower risk use is associated with a much lower risk so like i said around 60 60 to 66 so like i said around 60 60 to 66 so like i said around 60 60 to 66 percent lower percent lower percent lower if people are using the sauna four to if people are using the sauna four to if people are using the sauna four to seven times a week seven times a week seven times a week now now now why that is is um i probably you know why that is is um i probably you know why that is is um i probably you know again very interesting question probably again very interesting question probably again very interesting question probably something coming down to something coming down to something coming down to cardiovascular health right so if you're cardiovascular health right so if you're cardiovascular health right so if you're if you're basically in better

16:00if you're basically in better if you're basically in better cardiovascular health you're going to cardiovascular health you're going to cardiovascular health you're going to have increased blood flow to the brain have increased blood flow to the brain have increased blood flow to the brain and that's you know known to help and that's you know known to help and that's you know known to help protect against dementia protect against dementia protect against dementia but there's also but there's also but there's also some evidence and this kind of gets in some evidence and this kind of gets in some evidence and this kind of gets in some into some of the molecular some into some of the molecular some into some of the molecular details with um sauna use and something details with um sauna use and something details with um sauna use and something i'm extremely interested in are our heat i'm extremely interested in are our heat i'm extremely interested in are our heat shock proteins shock proteins shock proteins and heat shock proteins as their name and heat shock proteins as their name and heat shock proteins as their name implies implies implies are activated by heat stress are activated by heat stress are activated by heat stress um and sauna robustly activates them um and sauna robustly activates them um and sauna robustly activates them there's been some studies looking at there's been some studies looking at people that have people that have people that have sat in a about 163 degree fahrenheit sat in a about 163 degree fahrenheit sat in a about 163 degree fahrenheit sauna for 30 minutes sauna for 30 minutes sauna for 30 minutes they're able to to activate their heat they're able to to activate their heat they're able to to activate their heat shock proteins about 50 over their shock proteins about 50 over their shock proteins about 50 over their baseline levels baseline levels baseline levels so what are heat shock proteins and why so what are heat shock proteins and why so what are heat shock proteins and why do we even care about them well heat do we even care about them well heat do we even care about them well heat shock proteins are shock proteins are shock proteins are a stress response protein we can talk a a stress response protein we can talk a a stress response protein we can talk a little bit more about what that means little bit more about what that means little bit more about what that means later but later but later but essentially what they do is they help essentially what they do is they help essentially what they do is they help proteins inside of your cells

17:00proteins inside of your cells proteins inside of your cells they help keep their three-dimensional they help keep their three-dimensional they help keep their three-dimensional structure so every protein in your body structure so every protein in your body structure so every protein in your body has a three-dimensional structure and has a three-dimensional structure and has a three-dimensional structure and that's important for its function that's important for its function that's important for its function and these proteins in our body that are and these proteins in our body that are and these proteins in our body that are doing everything all the work inside of doing everything all the work inside of doing everything all the work inside of our cells our cells our cells they they don't stay around forever they they they don't stay around forever they they they don't stay around forever they eventually eventually eventually you know they get chewed up and degraded you know they get chewed up and degraded you know they get chewed up and degraded like in a in a garbage can basically you like in a in a garbage can basically you like in a in a garbage can basically you can think about it and so um can think about it and so um can think about it and so um sometimes you know that doesn't happen sometimes you know that doesn't happen sometimes you know that doesn't happen properly and as we age it definitely properly and as we age it definitely properly and as we age it definitely starts to go awry and so heat shock starts to go awry and so heat shock starts to go awry and so heat shock proteins kind of help prevent that from proteins kind of help prevent that from proteins kind of help prevent that from happening so they help prevent proteins happening so they help prevent proteins happening so they help prevent proteins from from from becoming disorganized and destructured becoming disorganized and destructured becoming disorganized and destructured because when they become that way because when they become that way because when they become that way they tend to aggregate and they can form they tend to aggregate and they can form they tend to aggregate and they can form aggregates and these aggregates can then aggregates and these aggregates can then aggregates and these aggregates can then form plaques and these plaques can form form plaques and these plaques can form form plaques and these plaques can form in places like the vascular system or in places like the vascular system or in places like the vascular system or they can form in places like the brain they can form in places like the brain they can form in places like the brain so probably the classical example of so probably the classical example of so probably the classical example of plaques in the brain are amyloid beta 42 plaques in the brain are amyloid beta 42 plaques in the brain are amyloid beta 42 plaques that are associated with plaques that are associated with plaques that are associated with alzheimer's disease alzheimer's disease alzheimer's disease so there's been

18:00so there's been so there's been a whole host of evidence in animal a whole host of evidence in animal a whole host of evidence in animal studies that have found studies that have found studies that have found that that that elevated levels of heat shock proteins elevated levels of heat shock proteins elevated levels of heat shock proteins can protect against the formation of can protect against the formation of can protect against the formation of amyloid beta plaques and they can help amyloid beta plaques and they can help amyloid beta plaques and they can help prevent prevent prevent an alzheimer's disease like an alzheimer's disease like an alzheimer's disease like disease in in animals so disease in in animals so disease in in animals so um there's been a lot of evidence of um there's been a lot of evidence of um there's been a lot of evidence of that and that i think is one that and that i think is one that and that i think is one interesting angle because saunas are interesting angle because saunas are interesting angle because saunas are well known to activate heat shock well known to activate heat shock well known to activate heat shock proteins and once they're activated they proteins and once they're activated they proteins and once they're activated they stay activated for about 48 hours i mean stay activated for about 48 hours i mean stay activated for about 48 hours i mean they're they're elevated for a while they're they're elevated for a while they're they're elevated for a while and um you know so and um you know so and um you know so constant when you're talking about constant when you're talking about constant when you're talking about someone that's doing it four to seven someone that's doing it four to seven someone that's doing it four to seven times a week times a week you know we don't have empirical you know we don't have empirical you know we don't have empirical evidence looking at a person and evidence looking at a person and evidence looking at a person and measuring their heat shock proteins like measuring their heat shock proteins like measuring their heat shock proteins like each day each day each day but you know one could imagine that but you know one could imagine that but you know one could imagine that you would you would see that heat shock you would you would see that heat shock you would you would see that heat shock proteins are way act way elevated proteins are way act way elevated proteins are way act way elevated over what their normal baseline levels over what their normal baseline levels over what their normal baseline levels are and so what you're having is almost

19:00are and so what you're having is almost are and so what you're having is almost this constitutive activation of this this constitutive activation of this this constitutive activation of this of this family of proteins that of this family of proteins that of this family of proteins that essentially help prevent plaques from essentially help prevent plaques from essentially help prevent plaques from forming forming forming um among other things so um among other things so um among other things so so i think that's a a really interesting so i think that's a a really interesting so i think that's a a really interesting angle as well angle as well angle as well uh with respect to to neurodegenerative uh with respect to to neurodegenerative uh with respect to to neurodegenerative disease and in fact disease and in fact disease and in fact one of my first one of my first one of my first experiments um experiments um experiments um when i was an early researcher when i was an early researcher when i was an early researcher at the salk institute for biological at the salk institute for biological at the salk institute for biological studies in la jolla i was doing some studies in la jolla i was doing some studies in la jolla i was doing some research on nematode worms c elegans research on nematode worms c elegans research on nematode worms c elegans where where where we were injecting them with amyloid beta we were injecting them with amyloid beta we were injecting them with amyloid beta 42 42 42 the peptide fragment that's known to be the peptide fragment that's known to be the peptide fragment that's known to be associated with alzheimer's disease associated with alzheimer's disease associated with alzheimer's disease causing these plaques in the brain we're causing these plaques in the brain we're causing these plaques in the brain we're injecting them into these worms and injecting them into these worms and injecting them into these worms and into their muscle tissue and it causes into their muscle tissue and it causes into their muscle tissue and it causes the worms to become paralyzed because the worms to become paralyzed because the worms to become paralyzed because they have all these they have all these they have all these protein aggregates in their muscle and protein aggregates in their muscle and protein aggregates in their muscle and they can't move anymore they can't move anymore they can't move anymore and there's it's a really distinct and there's it's a really distinct and there's it's a really distinct phenotype you look at them under a phenotype you look at them under a phenotype you look at them under a microscope and they're just they're microscope and they're just they're microscope and they're just they're still but they kind of just move their still but they kind of just move their still but they kind of just move their nose around and feed but they can't move

20:00nose around and feed but they can't move nose around and feed but they can't move and so um i did these experiments where and so um i did these experiments where and so um i did these experiments where i would i would i would boost up their heat shock proteins boost up their heat shock proteins boost up their heat shock proteins and and like it totally corrected that like like it totally corrected that like like it totally corrected that like these worms even though they had even these worms even though they had even these worms even though they had even though we were giving them amyloid beta though we were giving them amyloid beta though we were giving them amyloid beta 42 42 it it totally corrected them from um the it it totally corrected them from um the it it totally corrected them from um the paralysis because the amyloid beta 42 paralysis because the amyloid beta 42 paralysis because the amyloid beta 42 wasn't forming these aggregates wasn't forming these aggregates wasn't forming these aggregates so i i've always kind of go back to that so i i've always kind of go back to that so i i've always kind of go back to that original study that i you know had done original study that i you know had done original study that i you know had done with my own hands and it kind of made with my own hands and it kind of made with my own hands and it kind of made this this aha moment i'm like wow these this this aha moment i'm like wow these this this aha moment i'm like wow these heat shock proteins are doing something heat shock proteins are doing something heat shock proteins are doing something cool cool cool is that how you actually got interested is that how you actually got interested is that how you actually got interested in sauna use in the first place from in sauna use in the first place from in sauna use in the first place from that that um it's how i got interested in the um it's how i got interested in the um it's how i got interested in the molecular some of the molecular aspects molecular some of the molecular aspects molecular some of the molecular aspects of sauna use i would say that uh the of sauna use i would say that uh the of sauna use i would say that uh the real way i became interested in the real way i became interested in the real way i became interested in the sauna and this will take us into other sauna and this will take us into other sauna and this will take us into other brain function aspects if you're okay brain function aspects if you're okay brain function aspects if you're okay with that sure with that sure with that sure so when i was in graduate school so when i was in graduate school so when i was in graduate school i lived across the street from a ymca i lived across the street from a ymca i lived across the street from a ymca and i used to go use the sauna almost

21:00and i used to go use the sauna almost and i used to go use the sauna almost every day before i would go into the lab every day before i would go into the lab every day before i would go into the lab and do my experiments and and do my experiments and and do my experiments and as any as any as any graduate student or budding young graduate student or budding young graduate student or budding young scientist or even senior scientist will scientist or even senior scientist will scientist or even senior scientist will tell you tell you tell you experiments fail they fail all the time experiments fail they fail all the time experiments fail they fail all the time and it's very stressful it's very hard and it's very stressful it's very hard and it's very stressful it's very hard so so graduate school can be very hard so so graduate school can be very hard so so graduate school can be very hard because um you're constantly being just because um you're constantly being just because um you're constantly being just bombarded down it's like you're being bombarded down it's like you're being bombarded down it's like you're being hit like well that didn't work well that hit like well that didn't work well that hit like well that didn't work well that didn't work well there goes six months didn't work well there goes six months didn't work well there goes six months of work you know and it's it's a very of work you know and it's it's a very of work you know and it's it's a very stressful time and um stressful time and um stressful time and um what i started to notice was that using what i started to notice was that using what i started to notice was that using the sauna before going into the lab the sauna before going into the lab the sauna before going into the lab my my ability to handle stress was my my ability to handle stress was my my ability to handle stress was is noticeable like i was is noticeable like i was is noticeable like i was much more capable of handling stress my much more capable of handling stress my much more capable of handling stress my anxiety was much lower i mean it was anxiety was much lower i mean it was anxiety was much lower i mean it was very very noticeable for me where to the very very noticeable for me where to the very very noticeable for me where to the point where i was like point where i was like point where i was like something's going on here um i don't something's going on here um i don't something's going on here um i don't know what it is but it's something and know what it is but it's something and know what it is but it's something and so i started diving into the literature so i started diving into the literature so i started diving into the literature you know way back then in like you know way back then in like you know way back then in like 2009 you know so um

22:002009 you know so um 2009 you know so um that's where i kind of got into the that's where i kind of got into the that's where i kind of got into the sauna um and the effects on the brain sauna um and the effects on the brain sauna um and the effects on the brain and actually in the publication that and actually in the publication that and actually in the publication that that um we published last year i kind of that um we published last year i kind of that um we published last year i kind of uh rift a little bit on some i would say uh rift a little bit on some i would say uh rift a little bit on some i would say it's still still more of a hypothesis it's still still more of a hypothesis it's still still more of a hypothesis than anything than anything than anything um um um in in terms of the reason for that you in in terms of the reason for that you in in terms of the reason for that you know when you're when you're in the know when you're when you're in the know when you're when you're in the sauna sauna you're um you're dumping a bunch of you're um you're dumping a bunch of you're um you're dumping a bunch of endorphins much like exercise so it's endorphins much like exercise so it's endorphins much like exercise so it's sort of the same same effect so sort of the same same effect so sort of the same same effect so endorphins are those feel good opioids endorphins are those feel good opioids endorphins are those feel good opioids that your brain is producing that your brain is producing that your brain is producing the counter to that feel good endorphin the counter to that feel good endorphin the counter to that feel good endorphin is the it's called dinorphin the is the it's called dinorphin the is the it's called dinorphin the endogenous counter to it endogenous counter to it endogenous counter to it dinorphin is is that dinorphin is is that dinorphin is is that chemical in your brain that is chemical in your brain that is chemical in your brain that is responsible for responsible for responsible for making you feel dysphoria not so good um making you feel dysphoria not so good um making you feel dysphoria not so good um so the kind of feeling you get when so the kind of feeling you get when so the kind of feeling you get when you're really hot you're sitting in a you're really hot you're sitting in a you're really hot you're sitting in a sauna and you're like not feeling good sauna and you're like not feeling good sauna and you're like not feeling good like this is hot or you know or when like this is hot or you know or when like this is hot or you know or when you're going for your long distance run you're going for your long distance run you're going for your long distance run and it's that feeling of of you just

23:00and it's that feeling of of you just and it's that feeling of of you just don't feel good but you have to push don't feel good but you have to push don't feel good but you have to push past it right you push past it past it right you push past it past it right you push past it so um dynorphin is something that's so um dynorphin is something that's so um dynorphin is something that's produced produced produced um during during that that period and um during during that that period and um during during that that period and dinorphan is actually involved in dinorphan is actually involved in dinorphan is actually involved in cooling the body so i think that's cooling the body so i think that's cooling the body so i think that's partly why partly why partly why uh your body your brain is making it uh your body your brain is making it uh your body your brain is making it when you're when you're elevating your when you're when you're elevating your when you're when you're elevating your core body temperature um and the core body temperature um and the core body temperature um and the interesting thing about dinorphin is interesting thing about dinorphin is interesting thing about dinorphin is that although it's responsible for the that although it's responsible for the that although it's responsible for the dysphoric feeling dysphoric feeling dysphoric feeling it binds to a receptor in our brain it binds to a receptor in our brain it binds to a receptor in our brain called the kappa opioid receptor called the kappa opioid receptor called the kappa opioid receptor um um when it binds to that receptor it ends when it binds to that receptor it ends when it binds to that receptor it ends up doing this whole feedback loop and up doing this whole feedback loop and up doing this whole feedback loop and this is like the beauty of biology and this is like the beauty of biology and this is like the beauty of biology and the feedback loop is that those the feedback loop is that those the feedback loop is that those feel-good endorphins that we make bind feel-good endorphins that we make bind feel-good endorphins that we make bind to another type of receptor called the to another type of receptor called the to another type of receptor called the mu opioid receptor and this is the same mu opioid receptor and this is the same mu opioid receptor and this is the same type of receptor that morphine and type of receptor that morphine and type of receptor that morphine and opioids also bind to that help make opioids also bind to that help make opioids also bind to that help make people feel good they help with pain and people feel good they help with pain and people feel good they help with pain and stuff stuff stuff well kappa opioids when you when you well kappa opioids when you when you well kappa opioids when you when you bind to that receptor that dysphoric bind to that receptor that dysphoric bind to that receptor that dysphoric feeling it changes the mu opioid feeling it changes the mu opioid feeling it changes the mu opioid receptor it basically

24:00receptor it basically receptor it basically um makes them more sensitive to um makes them more sensitive to um makes them more sensitive to endorphins for a longer period of time endorphins for a longer period of time endorphins for a longer period of time and so uh you know i sort of have this and so uh you know i sort of have this and so uh you know i sort of have this hypothesis that like when you get in the hypothesis that like when you get in the hypothesis that like when you get in the sauna and you you you know you push past sauna and you you you know you push past sauna and you you you know you push past that like this feels terrible it's hot that like this feels terrible it's hot that like this feels terrible it's hot oh it's hard you know you push past it a oh it's hard you know you push past it a oh it's hard you know you push past it a little bit um you get done with it and little bit um you get done with it and little bit um you get done with it and and then the endorphins that you make and then the endorphins that you make and then the endorphins that you make a day later or two days later or five a day later or two days later or five a day later or two days later or five days later from laughing at a joke or days later from laughing at a joke or days later from laughing at a joke or forgiving giving your loved one a hug or forgiving giving your loved one a hug or forgiving giving your loved one a hug or whatever it is that's making you release whatever it is that's making you release whatever it is that's making you release endorphins you're gonna feel them better endorphins you're gonna feel them better endorphins you're gonna feel them better because they're more sensitive so um because they're more sensitive so um because they're more sensitive so um there's a bit of a tangent but that's there's a bit of a tangent but that's there's a bit of a tangent but that's sort of what got me interested in in sort of what got me interested in in sort of what got me interested in in using the sauna and um as as you using the sauna and um as as you using the sauna and um as as you mentioned and alluded to earlier there mentioned and alluded to earlier there mentioned and alluded to earlier there is there's actually a lot of empirical is there's actually a lot of empirical is there's actually a lot of empirical evidence that has now come out since evidence that has now come out since evidence that has now come out since that time that time that time looking at the effects of sauna use on looking at the effects of sauna use on looking at the effects of sauna use on mental health and specifically mental health and specifically mental health and specifically depression depression depression so um so um dr ashley mason right now who i am dr ashley mason right now who i am dr ashley mason right now who i am collaborating with is looking at

25:00collaborating with is looking at collaborating with is looking at sauna use and um sauna use and um sauna use and um people people with depression um that people people with depression um that people people with depression um that have not have not have not been able to manage it with um different been able to manage it with um different been able to manage it with um different types of standard of care treatments types of standard of care treatments types of standard of care treatments and so um she's going off of work from and so um she's going off of work from and so um she's going off of work from her former mentor dr charles raizon her former mentor dr charles raizon her former mentor dr charles raizon who found that basically elevating a who found that basically elevating a who found that basically elevating a person's core body temperature person's core body temperature person's core body temperature about one to two degrees about one to two degrees about one to two degrees was able to was able to was able to give people an antidepressant effect give people an antidepressant effect give people an antidepressant effect that lasted like up to six weeks with a that lasted like up to six weeks with a that lasted like up to six weeks with a single use and this was compared to a single use and this was compared to a single use and this was compared to a sham control sham control sham control they used this device that basically made people feel like they were getting made people feel like they were getting a little bit hot but it wasn't hot a little bit hot but it wasn't hot a little bit hot but it wasn't hot enough so it was a really great placebo enough so it was a really great placebo enough so it was a really great placebo control because people thought they were control because people thought they were control because people thought they were actually getting the treatment um actually getting the treatment um actually getting the treatment um placebo controls are very important placebo controls are very important placebo controls are very important particularly with depression studies particularly with depression studies particularly with depression studies because a placebo response is a very because a placebo response is a very because a placebo response is a very real response so um so that was that was real response so um so that was that was real response so um so that was that was a really uh a seminal study looking at a really uh a seminal study looking at a really uh a seminal study looking at you know just a single session of sauna you know just a single session of sauna you know just a single session of sauna use and how it had a very robust

26:00use and how it had a very robust use and how it had a very robust antidepressant effect that lasted six antidepressant effect that lasted six antidepressant effect that lasted six weeks weeks weeks in these depression depressed patients in these depression depressed patients in these depression depressed patients compared to placebo control now ashley compared to placebo control now ashley compared to placebo control now ashley mason is now she's following up on this mason is now she's following up on this mason is now she's following up on this and she's using an infrared sauna and and she's using an infrared sauna and and she's using an infrared sauna and she's also she's also she's also she's also elevating the core body she's also elevating the core body she's also elevating the core body temperature temperature temperature you know one to two degrees you know one to two degrees you know one to two degrees and um and she's doing now instead of and um and she's doing now instead of and um and she's doing now instead of one session she's doing up to eight one session she's doing up to eight one session she's doing up to eight sessions and and uh we're looking at a sessions and and uh we're looking at a sessions and and uh we're looking at a variety of biomarkers to understand why variety of biomarkers to understand why variety of biomarkers to understand why that is like is there are there changes that is like is there are there changes that is like is there are there changes in the immune system um and and there's in the immune system um and and there's in the immune system um and and there's some preliminary evidence to suggest some preliminary evidence to suggest some preliminary evidence to suggest there are you know there there have been there are you know there there have been there are you know there there have been quite a few observational studies quite a few observational studies quite a few observational studies looking at sauna use and how sauna use looking at sauna use and how sauna use looking at sauna use and how sauna use is associated with lower biomarkers of is associated with lower biomarkers of is associated with lower biomarkers of like c-reactive protein so these are like c-reactive protein so these are like c-reactive protein so these are markers of inflammation markers of inflammation markers of inflammation inflammation plays a major role in inflammation plays a major role in inflammation plays a major role in depression as well depression as well depression as well sauna use also can increase il-10 which sauna use also can increase il-10 which sauna use also can increase il-10 which is an anti-inflammatory so that's also is an anti-inflammatory so that's also is an anti-inflammatory so that's also been shown in an intervention study so been shown in an intervention study so been shown in an intervention study so people that have used the sauna had

27:00people that have used the sauna had people that have used the sauna had their blood drawn before and after there their blood drawn before and after there their blood drawn before and after there was some evidence that that il-10 was was some evidence that that il-10 was was some evidence that that il-10 was elevated after using the sauna so elevated after using the sauna so elevated after using the sauna so there's some suggestive evidence that there's some suggestive evidence that there's some suggestive evidence that you know the immune changes may be going you know the immune changes may be going you know the immune changes may be going on and changing it in a positive way on and changing it in a positive way on and changing it in a positive way much like exercise so exercise also much like exercise so exercise also much like exercise so exercise also um um it increases il-6 which is another it increases il-6 which is another it increases il-6 which is another cytokine that's kind of it's called a cytokine that's kind of it's called a cytokine that's kind of it's called a myokine it's released from your muscle myokine it's released from your muscle myokine it's released from your muscle and it can cause inflammation but it's and it can cause inflammation but it's and it can cause inflammation but it's also also also this type of cytokine that can cause a this type of cytokine that can cause a this type of cytokine that can cause a very powerful anti-inflammatory response very powerful anti-inflammatory response very powerful anti-inflammatory response so if there's a we can talk about what so if there's a we can talk about what so if there's a we can talk about what this means hormesis there's a bit of a this means hormesis there's a bit of a this means hormesis there's a bit of a hermetic hermetic hermetic aspect to it um aspect to it um aspect to it um so so so that's also very interesting so that's also very interesting so that's also very interesting as well as well as well yeah and with those depression studies yeah and with those depression studies yeah and with those depression studies and the hypothesis for why and the hypothesis for why and the hypothesis for why um sauna use wow this i mean it's um sauna use wow this i mean it's um sauna use wow this i mean it's amazing one sauna use can have amazing one sauna use can have amazing one sauna use can have potentially a six-week benefit potentially a six-week benefit potentially a six-week benefit for patients that are for patients that are for patients that are having depression having depression

28:00having depression could part of the hypothesis be that could part of the hypothesis be that could part of the hypothesis be that their their their because you mentioned our endorphins and because you mentioned our endorphins and because you mentioned our endorphins and our internal opiate system and how sauna our internal opiate system and how sauna our internal opiate system and how sauna use can sensitize those receptors so the use can sensitize those receptors so the use can sensitize those receptors so the opiates our own opiates inside of our opiates our own opiates inside of our opiates our own opiates inside of our body work better is that one of the body work better is that one of the body work better is that one of the hypotheses too of why this can help hypotheses too of why this can help hypotheses too of why this can help patients who are depressed it is it is patients who are depressed it is it is patients who are depressed it is it is and we're trying to figure out how to and we're trying to figure out how to and we're trying to figure out how to measure that like there's there's some measure that like there's there's some measure that like there's there's some tricks and stuff and so we're trying to tricks and stuff and so we're trying to tricks and stuff and so we're trying to find some collaborators and actually we find some collaborators and actually we find some collaborators and actually we do have some some collaborators that are do have some some collaborators that are do have some some collaborators that are um potentially going to help us kind of um potentially going to help us kind of um potentially going to help us kind of figure out how we can test whether or figure out how we can test whether or figure out how we can test whether or not that that is playing a role it's not that that is playing a role it's not that that is playing a role it's it's certainly something i think is it's certainly something i think is it's certainly something i think is playing a role for sure i think there's playing a role for sure i think there's playing a role for sure i think there's multiple things at play here and i think multiple things at play here and i think multiple things at play here and i think that one of them is is the the change in that one of them is is the the change in that one of them is is the the change in the opioid system in the brain for sure the opioid system in the brain for sure the opioid system in the brain for sure but you can't measure but you can't measure but you can't measure opioid receptors and and sensitivity and opioid receptors and and sensitivity and opioid receptors and and sensitivity and upregulation upregulation upregulation like you can in an animal right like in like you can in an animal right like in like you can in an animal right like in people like that's not you know we're people like that's not you know we're people like that's not you know we're not we're not we're not there yet um

29:00not we're not we're not there yet um not we're not we're not there yet um with with our technology so with with our technology so with with our technology so that would that would be something that that would that would be something that that would that would be something that would be really cool would be really cool would be really cool but um but there are some other things but um but there are some other things but um but there are some other things that can be measured in plasma that can be measured in plasma that can be measured in plasma interesting so like what things are you interesting so like what things are you interesting so like what things are you guys currently measuring with regard to guys currently measuring with regard to guys currently measuring with regard to oh we're doing a whole host i mean just oh we're doing a whole host i mean just oh we're doing a whole host i mean just like like like like every kind of inflammatory panel like every kind of inflammatory panel like every kind of inflammatory panel you can imagine you can imagine you can imagine um is being done brain derived um is being done brain derived um is being done brain derived neurotrophic factor so that's another um neurotrophic factor so that's another um neurotrophic factor so that's another um really interesting we are also measuring really interesting we are also measuring really interesting we are also measuring endorphins but but uh endorphins but but uh endorphins but but uh the the the brain-derived neurotrophic factor the brain-derived neurotrophic factor the brain-derived neurotrophic factor bdnf as it's called bdnf as it's called bdnf as it's called is something that's also elevated during is something that's also elevated during is something that's also elevated during exercise exercise exercise a lot of people think of brain derived a lot of people think of brain derived a lot of people think of brain derived neurotrophic factor as neurotrophic factor as neurotrophic factor as something that is very protective something that is very protective something that is very protective against brain aging and and i think against brain aging and and i think against brain aging and and i think there's a there's a there's a a good bit of evidence to suggest that a good bit of evidence to suggest that a good bit of evidence to suggest that that that's true you know so their that that's true you know so their that that's true you know so their brain drive neurotrophic factor for brain drive neurotrophic factor for brain drive neurotrophic factor for those of you that are not familiar with those of you that are not familiar with those of you that are not familiar with it is a growth factor that's produced in it is a growth factor that's produced in it is a growth factor that's produced in the brain the brain the brain that helps that helps that helps existing neurons survive

30:00existing neurons survive existing neurons survive and it also um and there's some debate and it also um and there's some debate and it also um and there's some debate about this but for the most part it about this but for the most part it about this but for the most part it plays a role in certain brain regions in plays a role in certain brain regions in plays a role in certain brain regions in actually growing new neurons in adults actually growing new neurons in adults actually growing new neurons in adults so there's kind of this hope that brain so there's kind of this hope that brain so there's kind of this hope that brain derived neurotrophic factors is a derived neurotrophic factors is a derived neurotrophic factors is a powerful anti-brain aging drug and i powerful anti-brain aging drug and i powerful anti-brain aging drug and i think it is think it is think it is but the other thing that it does is it but the other thing that it does is it but the other thing that it does is it plays a role in plays a role in plays a role in neuroplasticity and what that refers to neuroplasticity and what that refers to neuroplasticity and what that refers to like essentially what that refers to is like essentially what that refers to is like essentially what that refers to is you know you know you know having the connections in your brain having the connections in your brain having the connections in your brain kind of being able to rewire themselves kind of being able to rewire themselves kind of being able to rewire themselves with a changing environment and that's with a changing environment and that's with a changing environment and that's something that's really hard for older something that's really hard for older something that's really hard for older people to do people to do people to do but it also is a very important but it also is a very important but it also is a very important thing to happen when they're thing to happen when they're thing to happen when they're you know their stressful environment you know their stressful environment you know their stressful environment like for example pandemic hits you know like for example pandemic hits you know like for example pandemic hits you know everything changes like life is everything changes like life is everything changes like life is completely different completely different completely different like your ability to cope with that and like your ability to cope with that and like your ability to cope with that and your brain's ability to cope with that your brain's ability to cope with that your brain's ability to cope with that like there's some neuroplasticity like like there's some neuroplasticity like like there's some neuroplasticity like younger people they can adapt like younger people they can adapt like younger people they can adapt like they're adapting um and that's because

31:00they're adapting um and that's because they're adapting um and that's because their brains are you know as people like their brains are you know as people like their brains are you know as people like to call they're more plastic you know so to call they're more plastic you know so to call they're more plastic you know so there's there's a lot more there's there's a lot more there's there's a lot more neuroplasticity involved in that and neuroplasticity involved in that and neuroplasticity involved in that and there's a bit there's a there's an angle there's a bit there's a there's an angle there's a bit there's a there's an angle for depression in there as well because for depression in there as well because for depression in there as well because if you can't adapt to the changing if you can't adapt to the changing if you can't adapt to the changing environment environment environment then you might become depressed uh you then you might become depressed uh you then you might become depressed uh you know because you're not able to know because you're not able to know because you're not able to um you know change your behaviors in a um you know change your behaviors in a um you know change your behaviors in a way that you know allows you to to to way that you know allows you to to to way that you know allows you to to to live and and you know do the same things live and and you know do the same things live and and you know do the same things that you were doing before whatever that you were doing before whatever that you were doing before whatever changed it so anyways big tangent there changed it so anyways big tangent there changed it so anyways big tangent there but neuroplasticity but neuroplasticity but neuroplasticity is also regulated by brain derived is also regulated by brain derived is also regulated by brain derived neurotrophic factor and neurotrophic factor and neurotrophic factor and and it plays an important role in and it plays an important role in and it plays an important role in depression so we're also looking at bdnf depression so we're also looking at bdnf depression so we're also looking at bdnf and there's been evidence that plasma b and there's been evidence that plasma b and there's been evidence that plasma b dnf correlates with with actual levels dnf correlates with with actual levels dnf correlates with with actual levels of brain derived neurotrophic factor um of brain derived neurotrophic factor um of brain derived neurotrophic factor um changing in the brain as well changing in the brain as well changing in the brain as well and then we're looking at a bunch of and then we're looking at a bunch of and then we're looking at a bunch of other other other um um aging related telomeres senescence just aging related telomeres senescence just aging related telomeres senescence just all sorts of things we're trying to all sorts of things we're trying to all sorts of things we're trying to we're hoping to uncover some some novel

32:00we're hoping to uncover some some novel we're hoping to uncover some some novel mechanisms here very cool mechanisms here very cool mechanisms here very cool in addition to heat shock proteins are in addition to heat shock proteins are in addition to heat shock proteins are there any other cellular repair there any other cellular repair there any other cellular repair mechanisms that sauna use can kind of mechanisms that sauna use can kind of mechanisms that sauna use can kind of unlock within the body unlock within the body unlock within the body well i think you know like i mentioned well i think you know like i mentioned well i think you know like i mentioned the il-10 anti-inflammatory response but the il-10 anti-inflammatory response but the il-10 anti-inflammatory response but also nrf2 which is another also nrf2 which is another also nrf2 which is another major it's a major regulator of a major it's a major regulator of a major it's a major regulator of a variety of genes that are antioxidant variety of genes that are antioxidant variety of genes that are antioxidant involved in antioxidant involved in involved in antioxidant involved in involved in antioxidant involved in detoxifying things that you're exposed detoxifying things that you're exposed detoxifying things that you're exposed to in the environment to in the environment to in the environment anti-inflammatory as well anti-inflammatory as well anti-inflammatory as well but the underlying premise here is that but the underlying premise here is that but the underlying premise here is that when you're in the sauna you're when you're in the sauna you're when you're in the sauna you're stressing your body and nrf2 heat chug stressing your body and nrf2 heat chug stressing your body and nrf2 heat chug proteins these are il-6 proteins these are il-6 proteins these are il-6 you know these are these are part of um you know these are these are part of um you know these are these are part of um you know what's called a stress response you know what's called a stress response you know what's called a stress response pathway like like these are these are pathway like like these are these are pathway like like these are these are genes in our body that respond to stress genes in our body that respond to stress genes in our body that respond to stress and when they and when they and when they the way they respond to stress is that the way they respond to stress is that the way they respond to stress is that they basically activate

33:00they basically activate they basically activate anti-stress pathways these are pathways anti-stress pathways these are pathways anti-stress pathways these are pathways that are anti-inflammatory these are that are anti-inflammatory these are that are anti-inflammatory these are pathways that are antioxidant pathways that are antioxidant pathways that are antioxidant these are pathways that are involved in these are pathways that are involved in these are pathways that are involved in autophagy so the cleaning out of all the autophagy so the cleaning out of all the autophagy so the cleaning out of all the gunk inside of our cells pathways that gunk inside of our cells pathways that gunk inside of our cells pathways that are involved in making new stem cells are involved in making new stem cells are involved in making new stem cells for example for example for example repairing damage to dna so these are all repairing damage to dna so these are all repairing damage to dna so these are all part of the part of the part of the the stress response pathway and the stress response pathway and the stress response pathway and um um you know this this this whole stress you know this this this whole stress you know this this this whole stress response pathway kind of response pathway kind of response pathway kind of originates from this idea of hormesis originates from this idea of hormesis originates from this idea of hormesis where where a little bit of stress a little bit of stress a little bit of stress can activate can activate can activate these beneficial cellular response these beneficial cellular response these beneficial cellular response pathways and that has just far-reaching pathways and that has just far-reaching pathways and that has just far-reaching effects so humans evolved we evolved in effects so humans evolved we evolved in effects so humans evolved we evolved in environments that we have been environments that we have been environments that we have been intermittently challenged with stress intermittently challenged with stress intermittently challenged with stress you know people when they hear the word you know people when they hear the word you know people when they hear the word stress i mean they usually think about stress i mean they usually think about stress i mean they usually think about psychosocial stress psychological stress psychosocial stress psychological stress psychosocial stress psychological stress you know financial stress i'm not sure you know financial stress i'm not sure you know financial stress i'm not sure people think people think people think about sitting in a sauna or um the other

34:00about sitting in a sauna or um the other about sitting in a sauna or um the other types of stress that are beneficial the types of stress that are beneficial the types of stress that are beneficial the so-called eu stress so that would be so-called eu stress so that would be so-called eu stress so that would be exercise or fasting food scarcity you exercise or fasting food scarcity you exercise or fasting food scarcity you know so people know so people know so people i mentioned we've evolved with these i mentioned we've evolved with these i mentioned we've evolved with these intermittent challenges well you know intermittent challenges well you know intermittent challenges well you know before the industrial revolution before before the industrial revolution before before the industrial revolution before we had instacart and we could order our we had instacart and we could order our we had instacart and we could order our groceries and have them delivered to us groceries and have them delivered to us groceries and have them delivered to us like we had to go out and hunt and find like we had to go out and hunt and find like we had to go out and hunt and find our food we had to go gather pick our food we had to go gather pick our food we had to go gather pick berries berries berries we're beholden to you know the the we're beholden to you know the the we're beholden to you know the the climate and or you know what what prey climate and or you know what what prey climate and or you know what what prey were were were available right or there available right or there available right or there um and so there were times when when um and so there were times when when um and so there were times when when people didn't eat because they didn't people didn't eat because they didn't people didn't eat because they didn't you know they didn't have any you know they didn't have any you know they didn't have any i think they hunted or they didn't you i think they hunted or they didn't you i think they hunted or they didn't you know gather any berries or whatever so know gather any berries or whatever so know gather any berries or whatever so uh so there was there were times of uh so there was there were times of uh so there was there were times of intermittent fasting that that occurred intermittent fasting that that occurred intermittent fasting that that occurred uh throughout human evolution as well as uh throughout human evolution as well as uh throughout human evolution as well as movement you know like movement you know like movement you know like we didn't have people delivering our we didn't have people delivering our we didn't have people delivering our groceries to us we didn't get in an auto groceries to us we didn't get in an auto groceries to us we didn't get in an auto automobile and drive to the store you automobile and drive to the store you automobile and drive to the store you know we were out running we were chasing

35:00know we were out running we were chasing know we were out running we were chasing things we were walking and gathering we things we were walking and gathering we things we were walking and gathering we were moving so um you know we were were moving so um you know we were were moving so um you know we were stressing our bodies with these aerobic stressing our bodies with these aerobic stressing our bodies with these aerobic aerobic aerobic aerobic types of activities types of activities types of activities and also you know eating the plants and also you know eating the plants and also you know eating the plants eating these berries eating different eating these berries eating different eating these berries eating different types of of plants we were exposed to a types of of plants we were exposed to a types of of plants we were exposed to a variety of compounds in these plants variety of compounds in these plants variety of compounds in these plants that are called xenobiotics that are called xenobiotics that are called xenobiotics and and xenobiotics you know things like xenobiotics you know things like xenobiotics you know things like polyphenols you know flavonols you have polyphenols you know flavonols you have polyphenols you know flavonols you have things like things like things like you know egcg and green tea or curcumin you know egcg and green tea or curcumin you know egcg and green tea or curcumin and that's found in tumeric root these and that's found in tumeric root these and that's found in tumeric root these types of compounds types of compounds types of compounds also also activate stress response pathways so all activate stress response pathways so all activate stress response pathways so all these things activate genetic pathways these things activate genetic pathways these things activate genetic pathways in our body in our body in our body that that not only help us deal with a little bit not only help us deal with a little bit not only help us deal with a little bit of stress of fasting or exercise of stress of fasting or exercise of stress of fasting or exercise or sauna or sauna or sauna but also but also but also they help us deal with the stress of they help us deal with the stress of they help us deal with the stress of just aging and they're activated for a just aging and they're activated for a just aging and they're activated for a much longer period of time and so you so

36:00much longer period of time and so you so much longer period of time and so you so so this idea of hormesis is that this so this idea of hormesis is that this so this idea of hormesis is that this little bit of stress little bit of stress little bit of stress um can be so beneficial because you're um can be so beneficial because you're um can be so beneficial because you're having this powerful antioxidant having this powerful antioxidant having this powerful antioxidant response and anti-inflammatory response response and anti-inflammatory response response and anti-inflammatory response and you're activating things like and you're activating things like and you're activating things like autophagy which is clearing out pieces autophagy which is clearing out pieces autophagy which is clearing out pieces of dna inside your cell and little of dna inside your cell and little of dna inside your cell and little protein aggregates and you know you're protein aggregates and you know you're protein aggregates and you know you're activating stem cells to like make more activating stem cells to like make more activating stem cells to like make more stem cells and replenish you know cells stem cells and replenish you know cells stem cells and replenish you know cells in your tissues in your tissues in your tissues so the idea of this this adaptive so the idea of this this adaptive so the idea of this this adaptive response these stress response pathways response these stress response pathways response these stress response pathways is that like humans we were meant to is that like humans we were meant to is that like humans we were meant to activate them we're meant to challenge activate them we're meant to challenge activate them we're meant to challenge ourselves with types of stress like ourselves with types of stress like ourselves with types of stress like exercise you know intermittent fasting exercise you know intermittent fasting exercise you know intermittent fasting sauna use eating plants um and and sauna use eating plants um and and sauna use eating plants um and and and the reality is is that in our modern and the reality is is that in our modern and the reality is is that in our modern world world world we stop doing that you know we don't we we stop doing that you know we don't we we stop doing that you know we don't we don't do that as much and and and so um don't do that as much and and and so um don't do that as much and and and so um you know people are getting these you know people are getting these you know people are getting these diseases of age they're getting type 2 diseases of age they're getting type 2 diseases of age they're getting type 2 diabetes metabolic disease and diabetes metabolic disease and diabetes metabolic disease and cardiovascular disease and alzheimer's cardiovascular disease and alzheimer's cardiovascular disease and alzheimer's disease so there's lots of these disease so there's lots of these disease so there's lots of these diseases that are happening

37:00diseases that are happening diseases that are happening uh in in humans and um uh in in humans and um uh in in humans and um and so and so and so so this idea that you know there are so this idea that you know there are so this idea that you know there are these things that we can do in our these things that we can do in our these things that we can do in our lifestyle that can help prevent those lifestyle that can help prevent those lifestyle that can help prevent those from happening or at least delay them from happening or at least delay them from happening or at least delay them through through through constantly activating all these constantly activating all these constantly activating all these beneficial pathways like heat shock beneficial pathways like heat shock beneficial pathways like heat shock proteins heat shock proteins are proteins heat shock proteins are proteins heat shock proteins are activated by activated by activated by a variety of things like they're they're a variety of things like they're they're a variety of things like they're they're activated by exercise but they're activated by exercise but they're activated by exercise but they're activated by eating broccoli activated by eating broccoli activated by eating broccoli because broccoli has sulforaphane in it because broccoli has sulforaphane in it because broccoli has sulforaphane in it so you know heat is the most potent so you know heat is the most potent so you know heat is the most potent activator of it but the heat shock activator of it but the heat shock activator of it but the heat shock proteins themselves are part of that proteins themselves are part of that proteins themselves are part of that response pathway and we mentioned how response pathway and we mentioned how response pathway and we mentioned how they're beneficial for preventing they're beneficial for preventing they're beneficial for preventing neurodegenerative diseases they're neurodegenerative diseases they're neurodegenerative diseases they're they're beneficial preventing aggregates they're beneficial preventing aggregates they're beneficial preventing aggregates and plaques from forming in our arteries and plaques from forming in our arteries and plaques from forming in our arteries but they've also been shown to prevent but they've also been shown to prevent but they've also been shown to prevent muscle atrophy muscle atrophy muscle atrophy and this has been shown in a couple of and this has been shown in a couple of and this has been shown in a couple of human studies in a variety of animal human studies in a variety of animal human studies in a variety of animal studies studies studies where um humans that just have local where um humans that just have local where um humans that just have local heat applied to one of their limbs it heat applied to one of their limbs it heat applied to one of their limbs it basically prevented the the atrophy of

38:00basically prevented the the atrophy of basically prevented the the atrophy of muscle like like there's 40 decrease in muscle like like there's 40 decrease in muscle like like there's 40 decrease in in muscle atrophy from disuse of the in muscle atrophy from disuse of the in muscle atrophy from disuse of the moth of the muscle and this has been moth of the muscle and this has been moth of the muscle and this has been shown again in a lot of different animal shown again in a lot of different animal shown again in a lot of different animal studies um where it's basically helping studies um where it's basically helping studies um where it's basically helping helping you not helping you not helping you not you know degrade your muscle tissue and you know degrade your muscle tissue and you know degrade your muscle tissue and so that it has huge relevance for so that it has huge relevance for so that it has huge relevance for sarcopenia sarcopenia sarcopenia for people that are for people that are for people that are you know you know disabled that can't go out for a run disabled that can't go out for a run disabled that can't go out for a run perhaps can't you know exercise um perhaps can't you know exercise um perhaps can't you know exercise um they they might be able to use the sauna they they might be able to use the sauna they they might be able to use the sauna as well and the idea there just as well and the idea there just as well and the idea there just increased blood flow to that limb will increased blood flow to that limb will increased blood flow to that limb will help decrease atrophy over time no i help decrease atrophy over time no i help decrease atrophy over time no i think i think it has to do because at think i think it has to do because at think i think it has to do because at least in the animal studies they were least in the animal studies they were least in the animal studies they were trying to tease out the mechanism trying to tease out the mechanism trying to tease out the mechanism and um and um and um [Music] [Music] [Music] what what was shown was that it was what what was shown was that it was what what was shown was that it was activation of heat shock proteins like activation of heat shock proteins like activation of heat shock proteins like heat chuck protein 72 that was required heat chuck protein 72 that was required heat chuck protein 72 that was required for for for the preventing of muscle atrophy so the preventing of muscle atrophy so the preventing of muscle atrophy so and that is again i think has to do with

39:00and that is again i think has to do with and that is again i think has to do with the fact of the protein folding and the fact of the protein folding and the fact of the protein folding and misfolding and how misfolding and how misfolding and how you know when you have that happening you know when you have that happening you know when you have that happening proteins are you know it's preventing proteins are you know it's preventing proteins are you know it's preventing proteins from being degraded so much proteins from being degraded so much proteins from being degraded so much because they're having their proper because they're having their proper because they're having their proper three-dimensional structure and so three-dimensional structure and so three-dimensional structure and so you're maintaining that muscle mass you're maintaining that muscle mass you're maintaining that muscle mass you're maintaining it you're maintaining it you're maintaining it um um and i i i anecdotally i can tell you and i i i anecdotally i can tell you and i i i anecdotally i can tell you like over the years over the many years like over the years over the many years like over the years over the many years i've had many energy injuries and stuff i've had many energy injuries and stuff i've had many energy injuries and stuff and when i'm injured and when i'm injured and when i'm injured and i can't do my my normal workout and i can't do my my normal workout and i can't do my my normal workout routine routine routine like the sauna is like it is such a like the sauna is like it is such a like the sauna is like it is such a saving grace for me and saving grace for me and saving grace for me and i haven't actually measured you know i haven't actually measured you know i haven't actually measured you know empirically my muscle but like i can empirically my muscle but like i can empirically my muscle but like i can just just just feel like my muscles are not atrophying feel like my muscles are not atrophying feel like my muscles are not atrophying i mean like you kind of tell you know i mean like you kind of tell you know i mean like you kind of tell you know when you you don't work out and your when you you don't work out and your when you you don't work out and your muscles kind of start to get a little muscles kind of start to get a little muscles kind of start to get a little um um flabby so um i i think it just has a lot flabby so um i i think it just has a lot flabby so um i i think it just has a lot of implications for of implications for of implications for um sarcopenia and just helping maintain um sarcopenia and just helping maintain um sarcopenia and just helping maintain muscle mass as well muscle mass as well muscle mass as well and you mentioned how in our modern and you mentioned how in our modern and you mentioned how in our modern world we are world we are world we are insulated from a lot of these

40:00insulated from a lot of these insulated from a lot of these intermittent stressors that we may have intermittent stressors that we may have intermittent stressors that we may have been exposed to you know 100 200 been exposed to you know 100 200 been exposed to you know 100 200 years ago or more years ago or more years ago or more and another thing and another thing and another thing with our modern world is we're exposed with our modern world is we're exposed with our modern world is we're exposed to more potential toxins than ever to more potential toxins than ever to more potential toxins than ever certain toxins like you know aluminum or certain toxins like you know aluminum or certain toxins like you know aluminum or lead heavy metals like that lead heavy metals like that lead heavy metals like that in your in your in your review paper you mentioned how sauna use review paper you mentioned how sauna use review paper you mentioned how sauna use can actually help excrete those can actually help excrete those can actually help excrete those um heavy metals at a higher rate can you um heavy metals at a higher rate can you um heavy metals at a higher rate can you talk about that a little bit talk about that a little bit talk about that a little bit it does it does um and it's interesting it does it does um and it's interesting it does it does um and it's interesting because because because you know you know a lot of these compounds like heavy a lot of these compounds like heavy a lot of these compounds like heavy metals or you know other other types of metals or you know other other types of metals or you know other other types of compounds like you know phthalates or compounds like you know phthalates or compounds like you know phthalates or bpa they can be excreted through sweat bpa they can be excreted through sweat bpa they can be excreted through sweat or they can be excreted through urine or they can be excreted through urine or they can be excreted through urine and some some are excreted more and some some are excreted more and some some are excreted more predominantly through sweat and others predominantly through sweat and others predominantly through sweat and others are more predominantly excreted through are more predominantly excreted through are more predominantly excreted through urine for example so the ones that are urine for example so the ones that are urine for example so the ones that are more predominantly excreted through more predominantly excreted through more predominantly excreted through sweat you can imagine the robust effect sweat you can imagine the robust effect sweat you can imagine the robust effect that that sauna use has on them so

41:00that that sauna use has on them so that that sauna use has on them so cadmium being one cadmium being one cadmium being one where um where um where um there's been studies looking at there's been studies looking at there's been studies looking at sweating from from from sauna use where sweating from from from sauna use where sweating from from from sauna use where there's like a 122 fold increase in there's like a 122 fold increase in there's like a 122 fold increase in sweating out cadmium another one is sweating out cadmium another one is sweating out cadmium another one is aluminum aluminum's also excreted quite aluminum aluminum's also excreted quite aluminum aluminum's also excreted quite well from sweat and and you do excrete well from sweat and and you do excrete well from sweat and and you do excrete things like bpa and and stuff as well things like bpa and and stuff as well things like bpa and and stuff as well but you know but you know but you know the major pathway that bpa is eliminated the major pathway that bpa is eliminated the major pathway that bpa is eliminated is through through urine um but you know is through through urine um but you know is through through urine um but you know so so even just excreting some of these so so even just excreting some of these so so even just excreting some of these these heavy metal like cadmium is in these heavy metal like cadmium is in these heavy metal like cadmium is in like chocolate i mean it's just it's like chocolate i mean it's just it's like chocolate i mean it's just it's like like it's it's like one of those little it's it's like one of those little it's it's like one of those little insidious types of things which is insidious types of things which is insidious types of things which is making its way into your into your body making its way into your into your body making its way into your into your body and you don't even know it right and if and you don't even know it right and if and you don't even know it right and if you never sweat if you never exercise you never sweat if you never exercise you never sweat if you never exercise you're not getting rid of that stuff you're not getting rid of that stuff you're not getting rid of that stuff well right so um well right so um well right so um that is another sort of potential that is another sort of potential that is another sort of potential benefit with with using the sauna as benefit with with using the sauna as benefit with with using the sauna as well is excreting some of that well is excreting some of that well is excreting some of that those those compounds and particularly those those compounds and particularly those those compounds and particularly some of those heavy metals that like some of those heavy metals that like some of those heavy metals that like aluminum and cadmium

42:00aluminum and cadmium aluminum and cadmium i want to ask you about heart rate i want to ask you about heart rate i want to ask you about heart rate variability because it's variability because it's variability because it's become popular to measure this on smart become popular to measure this on smart become popular to measure this on smart jewelry you know watches and rings jewelry you know watches and rings jewelry you know watches and rings pretty much anything that can measure pretty much anything that can measure pretty much anything that can measure your pulse can probably measure your your pulse can probably measure your your pulse can probably measure your your heart rate variability as well your heart rate variability as well your heart rate variability as well so why is heart rate variability so why is heart rate variability so why is heart rate variability important and how can the sauna important and how can the sauna important and how can the sauna potentially benefit so you know i think heart rate so you know i think heart rate variability is important because it it's variability is important because it it's variability is important because it it's a it's a it's a basically a marker of a it's a it's a basically a marker of a it's a it's a basically a marker of how well your heart can handle stress how well your heart can handle stress how well your heart can handle stress when you're talking about like measuring when you're talking about like measuring when you're talking about like measuring the the intervals between your heart the the intervals between your heart the the intervals between your heart beats if you have a higher heart rate beats if you have a higher heart rate beats if you have a higher heart rate variability variability variability your heart is going to be able to handle your heart is going to be able to handle your heart is going to be able to handle a stressful moment like a heart attack a stressful moment like a heart attack a stressful moment like a heart attack better that's kind of how i think about better that's kind of how i think about better that's kind of how i think about it in sort of simplistic terms it in sort of simplistic terms it in sort of simplistic terms and and heart rate variability is and and heart rate variability is and and heart rate variability is improved with exercise like that's improved with exercise like that's improved with exercise like that's pretty well known exercise is able to

43:00pretty well known exercise is able to pretty well known exercise is able to improve heart rate variability improve heart rate variability improve heart rate variability and that's largely because and that's largely because and that's largely because um there's an effect on the auto um there's an effect on the auto um there's an effect on the auto autonomic nervous system so physical autonomic nervous system so physical autonomic nervous system so physical activity affects it you have increased activity affects it you have increased activity affects it you have increased parasympathetic activity parasympathetic activity parasympathetic activity and and lower lower sympathetic activity and the lower lower sympathetic activity and the lower lower sympathetic activity and the sauna has been shown to do the same sauna has been shown to do the same sauna has been shown to do the same thing so um thing so um thing so um so sauna use also so sauna use also so sauna use also increases heart rate variability increases heart rate variability increases heart rate variability and um it it is it you know activates and um it it is it you know activates and um it it is it you know activates the parasympathetic nervous system as the parasympathetic nervous system as the parasympathetic nervous system as well like very again it's back to that well like very again it's back to that well like very again it's back to that the sauna mimics moderate aerobic the sauna mimics moderate aerobic the sauna mimics moderate aerobic moderate intensity aerobic exercise and moderate intensity aerobic exercise and moderate intensity aerobic exercise and it's just the easiest way to think about it's just the easiest way to think about it's just the easiest way to think about it and almost everything you measure it and almost everything you measure it and almost everything you measure that exercise does you're going to see that exercise does you're going to see that exercise does you're going to see that with that with that with with the sauna as well in many cases with the sauna as well in many cases with the sauna as well in many cases so speaking of that's a good segue into so speaking of that's a good segue into so speaking of that's a good segue into this question which is this question which is this question which is can sauna effectively replace exercise can sauna effectively replace exercise can sauna effectively replace exercise or is it best to get both exercise and

44:00or is it best to get both exercise and or is it best to get both exercise and sauna is there any synergy between the sauna is there any synergy between the sauna is there any synergy between the two two two well exercise is king for sure um you well exercise is king for sure um you well exercise is king for sure um you know when it comes to to know when it comes to to know when it comes to to the best the best the best possible thing you could do for your possible thing you could do for your possible thing you could do for your overall health and um overall health and um overall health and um when i'm when i'm when i'm what i'm going to speak to is a is a what i'm going to speak to is a is a what i'm going to speak to is a is a study that looked at cardiorespiratory study that looked at cardiorespiratory study that looked at cardiorespiratory fitness and cardiorespiratory fitness is fitness and cardiorespiratory fitness is fitness and cardiorespiratory fitness is essentially it's a marker of essentially it's a marker of essentially it's a marker of of of of in my opinion i think it's a good in my opinion i think it's a good in my opinion i think it's a good biomarker for biological you know age in biomarker for biological you know age in biomarker for biological you know age in a way you know because you can have a way you know because you can have a way you know because you can have someone who is someone who is someone who is in their 60s and they've been physically in their 60s and they've been physically in their 60s and they've been physically active and um just lead a ladder really active and um just lead a ladder really active and um just lead a ladder really healthy and physically active life and healthy and physically active life and healthy and physically active life and they could have a better they could have a better they could have a better cardiorespiratory fitness than someone cardiorespiratory fitness than someone cardiorespiratory fitness than someone who is you know yeah 40 who's sedentary who is you know yeah 40 who's sedentary who is you know yeah 40 who's sedentary overweight overweight overweight just just never exercises you know so cardio never exercises you know so cardio never exercises you know so cardio respiratory fitness is a really good respiratory fitness is a really good respiratory fitness is a really good marker of of physical health marker of of physical health marker of of physical health and and there's been some studies analyzing

45:00there's been some studies analyzing there's been some studies analyzing cardio respiratory fitness in people cardio respiratory fitness in people cardio respiratory fitness in people that exercise do aerobic exercise that exercise do aerobic exercise that exercise do aerobic exercise and comparing it to people that do sauna and comparing it to people that do sauna and comparing it to people that do sauna and comparing them again to people that and comparing them again to people that and comparing them again to people that do aerobic exercise and sauna do aerobic exercise and sauna do aerobic exercise and sauna and so and so the ultimate outcome of what you know the ultimate outcome of what you know the ultimate outcome of what you know that that analysis showed was that that that analysis showed was that that that analysis showed was that people that did exercise and used asana people that did exercise and used asana people that did exercise and used asana had better cardio respiratory fitness had better cardio respiratory fitness had better cardio respiratory fitness than people that did exercise alone or than people that did exercise alone or than people that did exercise alone or did sauna alone um so did sauna alone um so did sauna alone um so you might say you might you might ask you might say you might you might ask you might say you might you might ask yourself well i'm i'm already physically yourself well i'm i'm already physically yourself well i'm i'm already physically active i exercise like why do i need active i exercise like why do i need active i exercise like why do i need sauna uh well the answer is do you want sauna uh well the answer is do you want sauna uh well the answer is do you want to be better do you want to have a to be better do you want to have a to be better do you want to have a better cardio respiratory fitness i know better cardio respiratory fitness i know better cardio respiratory fitness i know the answer that i have for myself yes i the answer that i have for myself yes i the answer that i have for myself yes i do do do and um and so so the those there is and um and so so the those there is and um and so so the those there is there does seem to be a synergy between there does seem to be a synergy between there does seem to be a synergy between sauna use and sauna use and sauna use and aerobic exercise where aerobic exercise where aerobic exercise where people that are are doing both seem to

46:00people that are are doing both seem to people that are are doing both seem to have a better cardio respiratory fitness have a better cardio respiratory fitness have a better cardio respiratory fitness if you just compared sauna and exercise if you just compared sauna and exercise if you just compared sauna and exercise only only only exercise was had you know people that exercise was had you know people that exercise was had you know people that exercise had a better cardio respiratory exercise had a better cardio respiratory exercise had a better cardio respiratory fitness than people that only did sauna fitness than people that only did sauna fitness than people that only did sauna and didn't exercise and didn't exercise and didn't exercise um but if you compare sauna to people um but if you compare sauna to people um but if you compare sauna to people that don't exercise that don't exercise that don't exercise people that people that do the sauna people that people that do the sauna people that people that do the sauna have a better cardio respiratory fitness have a better cardio respiratory fitness than people that don't use the sauna so than people that don't use the sauna so than people that don't use the sauna so um um i think i think i think i think i think i think you know the way i think about this is you know the way i think about this is you know the way i think about this is like there are people that cannot do like there are people that cannot do like there are people that cannot do physical activity they're disabled in physical activity they're disabled in physical activity they're disabled in some way shape or form and they just some way shape or form and they just some way shape or form and they just can't do it and so can't do it and so can't do it and so you know you know here's here here they have now a here's here here they have now a here's here here they have now a potential way to get some moderate potential way to get some moderate potential way to get some moderate intensity aerobic exercise and improve intensity aerobic exercise and improve intensity aerobic exercise and improve their cardiovascular health and improve their cardiovascular health and improve their cardiovascular health and improve other aspects of their brain you know other aspects of their brain you know other aspects of their brain you know health as well health as well health as well um and so i think that is really awesome um and so i think that is really awesome um and so i think that is really awesome but we also have people like me um and a but we also have people like me um and a but we also have people like me um and a lot of people out there who are lot of people out there who are lot of people out there who are physically active and want to do physically active and want to do physically active and want to do everything they can to improve you know everything they can to improve you know everything they can to improve you know every every biomarker of aging and every

47:00every every biomarker of aging and every every every biomarker of aging and every you know way you know their health you know way you know their health you know way you know their health aspect of their health that they can and aspect of their health that they can and aspect of their health that they can and i think that the sauna on top of that i think that the sauna on top of that i think that the sauna on top of that is a way to go and you know you only is a way to go and you know you only is a way to go and you know you only have so much time in the day but have so much time in the day but have so much time in the day but ultimately you know for for people that ultimately you know for for people that ultimately you know for for people that have used the sauna they know like you have used the sauna they know like you have used the sauna they know like you get in the sauna and and i personally get in the sauna and and i personally get in the sauna and and i personally use it for a variety of different ways use it for a variety of different ways use it for a variety of different ways you know i like to do it right after my you know i like to do it right after my you know i like to do it right after my exercise i like to do it you know i have exercise i like to do it you know i have exercise i like to do it you know i have a peloton bike right next to my sauna a peloton bike right next to my sauna a peloton bike right next to my sauna and i like to get on get on my bike and and i like to get on get on my bike and and i like to get on get on my bike and then hop in the sauna but then hop in the sauna but then hop in the sauna but um um i also i also i also only have so much time in the day and only have so much time in the day and only have so much time in the day and it's like well if i can only do exercise it's like well if i can only do exercise it's like well if i can only do exercise or the sauna mostly i'm going to choose or the sauna mostly i'm going to choose or the sauna mostly i'm going to choose exercise but you know here's the thing i exercise but you know here's the thing i exercise but you know here's the thing i also take science papers i take my work also take science papers i take my work also take science papers i take my work in the sauna and i do things i i recite in the sauna and i do things i i recite in the sauna and i do things i i recite presentations in my brain and presentations in my brain and presentations in my brain and interestingly something about the sauna interestingly something about the sauna interestingly something about the sauna also affects my memory where i remember also affects my memory where i remember also affects my memory where i remember things better after thinking about them things better after thinking about them

48:00things better after thinking about them in the sauna in the sauna and um i have some theories as to why and um i have some theories as to why and um i have some theories as to why that is you know there's a lot of that is you know there's a lot of that is you know there's a lot of evidence that evidence that evidence that activating you know activating you know activating you know that that you you get that you know emotional you you get that you know emotional you you get that you know emotional arousal and that helps kind of solidify arousal and that helps kind of solidify arousal and that helps kind of solidify a memory well dishonest kind of like a memory well dishonest kind of like a memory well dishonest kind of like stressing your body and there's like an stressing your body and there's like an stressing your body and there's like an arousal aspect to it so i'm sort of arousal aspect to it so i'm sort of arousal aspect to it so i'm sort of wondering if that has to do with it but wondering if that has to do with it but wondering if that has to do with it but um you know um you know um you know people can get in that sauna and people can get in that sauna and people can get in that sauna and meditate as well they can they can meditate as well they can they can meditate as well they can they can listen to a podcast listen to music listen to a podcast listen to music listen to a podcast listen to music you can you can get your creative juices you can you can get your creative juices you can you can get your creative juices floating that's another way way i um use floating that's another way way i um use floating that's another way way i um use the sauna i use it kind of like i use my the sauna i use it kind of like i use my the sauna i use it kind of like i use my runs where i get in the sauna and i hash runs where i get in the sauna and i hash runs where i get in the sauna and i hash through ideas i think about them and i through ideas i think about them and i through ideas i think about them and i you know i it it really works so i think you know i it it really works so i think you know i it it really works so i think that the saunas is great not only for that the saunas is great not only for that the saunas is great not only for you know you know your physical your physical health and your physical your physical health and your physical your physical health and cardio respiratory fitness but you can cardio respiratory fitness but you can cardio respiratory fitness but you can also you can also be efficient with it also you can also be efficient with it also you can also be efficient with it and you can use it and you can use it and you can use it you know to not only improve your you know to not only improve your you know to not only improve your physical health but also help you with physical health but also help you with physical health but also help you with your work you know like there's there's

49:00your work you know like there's there's your work you know like there's there's there's things about it i think that um there's things about it i think that um there's things about it i think that um that are beneficial that aren't well that are beneficial that aren't well that are beneficial that aren't well known and well understood and i think known and well understood and i think known and well understood and i think it's a beautiful thing that phones don't it's a beautiful thing that phones don't it's a beautiful thing that phones don't work in asana you know it gets too hot work in asana you know it gets too hot work in asana you know it gets too hot for phones to work so it's a it's a for phones to work so it's a it's a for phones to work so it's a it's a built-in break for me to uh take a break built-in break for me to uh take a break built-in break for me to uh take a break from my phone from my phone from my phone which i love totally so important like which i love totally so important like which i love totally so important like and people like have such a hard time and people like have such a hard time and people like have such a hard time doing that you know doing that you know doing that you know exactly it makes a difference well exactly it makes a difference well exactly it makes a difference well before we get into more specifics about before we get into more specifics about before we get into more specifics about how we can potentially optimize our own how we can potentially optimize our own how we can potentially optimize our own sauna use or sauna use or sauna use or hot bath use hot bath use hot bath use could you could you could you briefly mention some of the countries or briefly mention some of the countries or briefly mention some of the countries or cultures or native americans in this cultures or native americans in this cultures or native americans in this country for example that have used country for example that have used country for example that have used saunas or hot therapy for saunas or hot therapy for saunas or hot therapy for uh many many years and and maybe some of uh many many years and and maybe some of uh many many years and and maybe some of the lessons that we can learn from them the lessons that we can learn from them the lessons that we can learn from them well certainly i talked about finland i well certainly i talked about finland i well certainly i talked about finland i mean i've visited finland and i've used mean i've visited finland and i've used mean i've visited finland and i've used their saunas there and their saunas there and their saunas there and almost everyone has a sauna in their almost everyone has a sauna in their almost everyone has a sauna in their home it's it's it's very ubiquitous so

50:00home it's it's it's very ubiquitous so home it's it's it's very ubiquitous so um it's certainly a big cultural thing um it's certainly a big cultural thing um it's certainly a big cultural thing in in finland in in finland in in finland um russian banyas but um as you um russian banyas but um as you um russian banyas but um as you mentioned native americans they have mentioned native americans they have mentioned native americans they have their sweat lodges i think that anyone their sweat lodges i think that anyone their sweat lodges i think that anyone that's any culture that's used it has that's any culture that's used it has that's any culture that's used it has like tapped into something and realized like tapped into something and realized like tapped into something and realized there's something here there's something there's something here there's something there's something here there's something beneficial here and that's why it's kind beneficial here and that's why it's kind beneficial here and that's why it's kind of stayed of stayed of stayed in the united states in the united states in the united states you know you know saunas are like thought about like oh saunas are like thought about like oh saunas are like thought about like oh yeah my gym has a sauna like that's kind yeah my gym has a sauna like that's kind yeah my gym has a sauna like that's kind of the way it is in the united states i of the way it is in the united states i of the way it is in the united states i think things are starting to change um think things are starting to change um think things are starting to change um there are there are there are there are a lot of saunas that are there are a lot of saunas that are there are a lot of saunas that are affordable now affordable now affordable now and um you know that even people can and um you know that even people can and um you know that even people can just plug into our regular normal outlet just plug into our regular normal outlet just plug into our regular normal outlet and then again there's there's other and then again there's there's other and then again there's there's other modalities to to raise your your core modalities to to raise your your core modalities to to raise your your core body temperature like you mentioned the body temperature like you mentioned the body temperature like you mentioned the hot baths hot baths hot baths so um so um [Music] [Music] it i think i think things are changing it i think i think things are changing it i think i think things are changing in the united states and as as in the united states and as as in the united states and as as more people are becoming aware of the more people are becoming aware of the more people are becoming aware of the benefits of using asana benefits of using asana benefits of using asana we're going to start to see it it become

51:00we're going to start to see it it become we're going to start to see it it become more and more accessible where people more and more accessible where people more and more accessible where people are going to start having them in their are going to start having them in their are going to start having them in their houses houses houses you know i used to live i used to live you know i used to live i used to live you know i used to live i used to live in a really small apartment in a really small apartment in a really small apartment and um and um i had a sauna that was like four by four i had a sauna that was like four by four i had a sauna that was like four by four feet feet feet and it was in the bedroom and um and it was in the bedroom and um and it was in the bedroom and um you know this was like a one bedroom you know this was like a one bedroom you know this was like a one bedroom apartment apartment apartment and it was fine and it was fine and it was fine you know it was right right there in the you know it was right right there in the you know it was right right there in the bedroom next to the bed um you know this bedroom next to the bed um you know this bedroom next to the bed um you know this was a queen-size bed and a small room was a queen-size bed and a small room was a queen-size bed and a small room and so you know i think you kind of just and so you know i think you kind of just and so you know i think you kind of just you kind of just make you make room for you kind of just make you make room for you kind of just make you make room for it when it when it comes to your health it when it when it comes to your health it when it when it comes to your health so i mean what else do we have so i mean what else do we have so i mean what else do we have on a traditional sauna or was it on a traditional sauna or was it on a traditional sauna or was it infrared it was a traditional sauna yeah infrared it was a traditional sauna yeah infrared it was a traditional sauna yeah so uh for people listening you know so uh for people listening you know so uh for people listening you know there's there a lot most all of the there's there a lot most all of the there's there a lot most all of the studies that i've been talking about up studies that i've been talking about up studies that i've been talking about up until this point have come out of until this point have come out of until this point have come out of finland for the most part finland for the most part finland for the most part um um and they've used traditional saunas so and they've used traditional saunas so and they've used traditional saunas so these are saunas that are that have a these are saunas that are that have a these are saunas that are that have a heater in them heater in them heater in them that heats the ambient air around you

52:00that heats the ambient air around you that heats the ambient air around you and that in turn then sort heats you up and that in turn then sort heats you up and that in turn then sort heats you up and elevates your core body temperature and elevates your core body temperature and elevates your core body temperature um in finland they also uh have hot um in finland they also uh have hot um in finland they also uh have hot rocks rocks rocks in the heater and and they pour water in the heater and and they pour water in the heater and and they pour water over these hot rocks so they create over these hot rocks so they create over these hot rocks so they create humidity a lot of a lot of um the humidity a lot of a lot of um the humidity a lot of a lot of um the studies that i refer to also had a studies that i refer to also had a studies that i refer to also had a humidity between 10 to 20 percent humidity between 10 to 20 percent humidity between 10 to 20 percent so um so um which also makes it feel hotter than it which also makes it feel hotter than it which also makes it feel hotter than it is is um um and so um and so um and so um so that's so that's a a a conventional so that's so that's a a a conventional so that's so that's a a a conventional or regular sauna then there's infrared or regular sauna then there's infrared or regular sauna then there's infrared saunas and then you can get the far near saunas and then you can get the far near saunas and then you can get the far near infrared saunas but the biggest infrared saunas but the biggest infrared saunas but the biggest difference between the infrared saunas difference between the infrared saunas difference between the infrared saunas and the in the traditional saunas is and the in the traditional saunas is and the in the traditional saunas is that the infrared saunas are using that the infrared saunas are using that the infrared saunas are using thermal radiation thermal radiation thermal radiation to heat you up directly basically and so to heat you up directly basically and so to heat you up directly basically and so those types of saunas only get to around those types of saunas only get to around those types of saunas only get to around 140 or so degrees fahrenheit 140 or so degrees fahrenheit 140 or so degrees fahrenheit whereas the traditional sun as i was whereas the traditional sun as i was whereas the traditional sun as i was just talking about most of them ones just talking about most of them ones just talking about most of them ones that people get in their home can go up

53:00that people get in their home can go up that people get in their home can go up to like almost 200 degrees some some can to like almost 200 degrees some some can to like almost 200 degrees some some can go higher but mostly around 200 degrees go higher but mostly around 200 degrees go higher but mostly around 200 degrees fahrenheit fahrenheit fahrenheit so so so that's the major difference between so that's the major difference between so that's the major difference between the infrared and the traditional sauna a the infrared and the traditional sauna a the infrared and the traditional sauna a lot of traditional saunas typically you lot of traditional saunas typically you lot of traditional saunas typically you have to have an electrician come out and have to have an electrician come out and have to have an electrician come out and special things you know have to be done special things you know have to be done special things you know have to be done but now there are so there are but now there are so there are but now there are so there are traditional saunas coming out where you traditional saunas coming out where you traditional saunas coming out where you can just plug it into any outlet can just plug it into any outlet can just plug it into any outlet and do you think that the infrared and do you think that the infrared and do you think that the infrared saunas are saunas are saunas are likely as beneficial as the traditional likely as beneficial as the traditional likely as beneficial as the traditional saunas well there's certainly not as much well there's certainly not as much evidence to say with confidence whether evidence to say with confidence whether evidence to say with confidence whether or not they are i think or not they are i think or not they are i think a lot of studies that have come out of a lot of studies that have come out of a lot of studies that have come out of japan they call it way on therapy japan they call it way on therapy japan they call it way on therapy they're they're using infrared saunas they're they're using infrared saunas they're they're using infrared saunas they have a very specific protocol these they have a very specific protocol these they have a very specific protocol these people are heated up to about 140 people are heated up to about 140 people are heated up to about 140 degrees fahrenheit degrees fahrenheit degrees fahrenheit and um and um they're in that saw infrared sauna for a they're in that saw infrared sauna for a they're in that saw infrared sauna for a duration of time that's anywhere between duration of time that's anywhere between duration of time that's anywhere between 15 to 30 minutes and then they're heated

54:0015 to 30 minutes and then they're heated 15 to 30 minutes and then they're heated at their i mean they're wrapped in a hot at their i mean they're wrapped in a hot at their i mean they're wrapped in a hot blanket and then they're kept in that blanket and then they're kept in that blanket and then they're kept in that hot blanket for an additional 15 to 30 hot blanket for an additional 15 to 30 hot blanket for an additional 15 to 30 minutes minutes minutes and um and um there's been some some evidence using there's been some some evidence using there's been some some evidence using that type of infrared sauna the way on that type of infrared sauna the way on that type of infrared sauna the way on therapy protocol therapy protocol therapy protocol show you know showing that it helps show you know showing that it helps show you know showing that it helps treat certain heart conditions so it treat certain heart conditions so it treat certain heart conditions so it seems to be beneficial for for seems to be beneficial for for seems to be beneficial for for cardiovascular health as well cardiovascular health as well cardiovascular health as well um um you know to some degree you know i you know to some degree you know i you know to some degree you know i mentioned heat shock proteins were mentioned heat shock proteins were mentioned heat shock proteins were activated activated activated you know 50 over baseline but this was you know 50 over baseline but this was you know 50 over baseline but this was at 163 degrees fahrenheit for 30 minutes at 163 degrees fahrenheit for 30 minutes at 163 degrees fahrenheit for 30 minutes so perhaps so perhaps so perhaps you know my like my in-laws have an you know my like my in-laws have an you know my like my in-laws have an infrared sauna and i've used it many infrared sauna and i've used it many infrared sauna and i've used it many many times when i've gone to visit them many times when i've gone to visit them many times when i've gone to visit them and for me and for me and for me i have to stay in the sauna in the i have to stay in the sauna in the i have to stay in the sauna in the infrared sauna for like an hour and it infrared sauna for like an hour and it infrared sauna for like an hour and it has to be like totally maxed out before has to be like totally maxed out before has to be like totally maxed out before i can get in it it just because i'm so i can get in it it just because i'm so i can get in it it just because i'm so heat adapted too so heat adapted too so heat adapted too so there might be some changes and we can there might be some changes and we can there might be some changes and we can talk a little bit about the protocols talk a little bit about the protocols talk a little bit about the protocols that were used in the studies um by that were used in the studies um by that were used in the studies um by comparison there but um comparison there but um comparison there but um so i do think there are some benefits

55:00so i do think there are some benefits so i do think there are some benefits i personally think traditional i personally think traditional i personally think traditional traditional traditional saunas are um traditional traditional saunas are um traditional traditional saunas are um are really great are really great are really great but you know again maybe we'll just get but you know again maybe we'll just get but you know again maybe we'll just get more evidence coming out that infrared more evidence coming out that infrared more evidence coming out that infrared saunas are saunas are you know quite quite beneficial as well you know quite quite beneficial as well you know quite quite beneficial as well and the infrareds tend to be less and the infrareds tend to be less and the infrareds tend to be less expensive from what what i'm seeing too expensive from what what i'm seeing too expensive from what what i'm seeing too a little bit more affordable have you a little bit more affordable have you a little bit more affordable have you seen any seen any seen any um um downsides to the infrared as far as um downsides to the infrared as far as um downsides to the infrared as far as um i don't know i mean infrared sounds it's i don't know i mean infrared sounds it's i don't know i mean infrared sounds it's kind of like a scary word to some people kind of like a scary word to some people kind of like a scary word to some people like what's going on with this there's like what's going on with this there's like what's going on with this there's radiation right radiation right radiation right have you heard of any uh potential have you heard of any uh potential have you heard of any uh potential downsides to skin or no yes okay no i downsides to skin or no yes okay no i downsides to skin or no yes okay no i haven't haven't haven't well if you're comfortable sharing i well if you're comfortable sharing i well if you're comfortable sharing i would love to get into details about would love to get into details about would love to get into details about your specific sauna protocol that you've your specific sauna protocol that you've your specific sauna protocol that you've adapted in your life how often do you adapted in your life how often do you adapted in your life how often do you use the sauna use the sauna use the sauna what temperature what humidity what temperature what humidity what temperature what humidity um um you know how long you stay in there so you know how long you stay in there so you know how long you stay in there so let's get into some of those details and

56:00let's get into some of those details and let's get into some of those details and i'll preface this by saying this is not i'll preface this by saying this is not i'll preface this by saying this is not medical advice anyone that is medical advice anyone that is medical advice anyone that is considering using the sauna good idea to considering using the sauna good idea to considering using the sauna good idea to check it out with your medical check it out with your medical check it out with your medical professional first in case you have a professional first in case you have a professional first in case you have a health condition that may make sauna use health condition that may make sauna use health condition that may make sauna use dangerous but dangerous but dangerous but with that said yeah let's hear about with that said yeah let's hear about with that said yeah let's hear about what what you've uh what what you've uh what what you've uh uh incorporated into your life uh incorporated into your life uh incorporated into your life sure well let's start with the studies sure well let's start with the studies sure well let's start with the studies um and the data that i referred to and um and the data that i referred to and um and the data that i referred to and and what the and what the and what the temperature duration etc i talked a lot temperature duration etc i talked a lot temperature duration etc i talked a lot about frequency four to seven times a about frequency four to seven times a about frequency four to seven times a week but i didn't talk much about week but i didn't talk much about week but i didn't talk much about temperature or how long people were in temperature or how long people were in temperature or how long people were in the sauna so the sauna so the sauna so in in almost all of those studies the almost all of those studies the almost all of those studies the temperature of the sauna um these were temperature of the sauna um these were temperature of the sauna um these were these were saunas in finland and they these were saunas in finland and they these were saunas in finland and they were were 174 degrees fahrenheit around 174 degrees fahrenheit around 174 degrees fahrenheit around and the humidity was between between and the humidity was between between and the humidity was between between 10 to 20 percent humidity i think 10 to 20 percent humidity i think 10 to 20 percent humidity i think something like that something like that something like that and so um and so um what was very interesting to me when i what was very interesting to me when i what was very interesting to me when i was was was looking at the data coming out of dr

57:00looking at the data coming out of dr looking at the data coming out of dr yari lakinen's lab yari lakinen's lab yari lakinen's lab is that is that is that duration in the sauna seemed to matter duration in the sauna seemed to matter duration in the sauna seemed to matter with respect to robustness of with respect to robustness of with respect to robustness of um of the results so i mentioned for um of the results so i mentioned for um of the results so i mentioned for example you know example you know example you know people that use the sauna four to seven people that use the sauna four to seven people that use the sauna four to seven times a week were times a week were times a week were fifty percent less likely fifty percent less likely fifty percent less likely to to to to die from like you know cardiovascular to die from like you know cardiovascular to die from like you know cardiovascular disease related death disease related death disease related death well that number was referring to people well that number was referring to people well that number was referring to people that stayed in the sauna greater than 19 that stayed in the sauna greater than 19 that stayed in the sauna greater than 19 minutes minutes so this was about 20 minutes so 20 so this was about 20 minutes so 20 so this was about 20 minutes so 20 minutes is this is the sweet spot at minutes is this is the sweet spot at minutes is this is the sweet spot at about 174 degrees fahrenheit about 174 degrees fahrenheit about 174 degrees fahrenheit you know humidity 10 to 20 you know humidity 10 to 20 you know humidity 10 to 20 um people that sat in the sauna for like um people that sat in the sauna for like um people that sat in the sauna for like 11 minutes on average 11 minutes on average 11 minutes on average their their reduction in their their reduction in their their reduction in cardiovascular disease related um death cardiovascular disease related um death cardiovascular disease related um death from cardiovascular disease was like 8 from cardiovascular disease was like 8 from cardiovascular disease was like 8 percent percent percent eight percent versus fifty percent big eight percent versus fifty percent big eight percent versus fifty percent big difference there difference there difference there so um

58:00so um duration definitely matters uh with duration definitely matters uh with duration definitely matters uh with respect to the sauna so that's kind of respect to the sauna so that's kind of respect to the sauna so that's kind of where i started out with my where i started out with my where i started out with my my sort of okay what am i what am i my sort of okay what am i what am i my sort of okay what am i what am i gonna do and then i also mentioned gonna do and then i also mentioned gonna do and then i also mentioned earlier about heat shock proteins i'm earlier about heat shock proteins i'm earlier about heat shock proteins i'm also very interested in activating my also very interested in activating my also very interested in activating my heat shock proteins um and so the the heat shock proteins um and so the the heat shock proteins um and so the the 163 degree fahrenheit for 30 minutes 163 degree fahrenheit for 30 minutes 163 degree fahrenheit for 30 minutes activated them by 50 over baseline activated them by 50 over baseline activated them by 50 over baseline levels levels levels and so um and so um typically what i do my protocol is i do typically what i do my protocol is i do typically what i do my protocol is i do um typically when i go for my long runs um typically when i go for my long runs um typically when i go for my long runs i don't i don't do sauna after but i'll i don't i don't do sauna after but i'll i don't i don't do sauna after but i'll but i do do a jacuzzi at night so um but i do do a jacuzzi at night so um but i do do a jacuzzi at night so um when i'm doing my peloton bike i do a when i'm doing my peloton bike i do a when i'm doing my peloton bike i do a lot of high intensity interval training lot of high intensity interval training lot of high intensity interval training you know uh pelotons you know uh pelotons you know uh pelotons and i crank the sauna up you know about and i crank the sauna up you know about and i crank the sauna up you know about an hour an hour and a half before i'm an hour an hour and a half before i'm an hour an hour and a half before i'm gonna get on that peloton gonna get on that peloton gonna get on that peloton and i get on the peloton and then i go and i get on the peloton and then i go and i get on the peloton and then i go into the sauna immediately after into the sauna immediately after into the sauna immediately after and i'm i'm in the sauna and i'm i'm in the sauna and i'm i'm in the sauna for and the sauna is typically around for and the sauna is typically around for and the sauna is typically around 186 degrees fahrenheit for me

59:00186 degrees fahrenheit for me 186 degrees fahrenheit for me when i get in there when i get in there when i get in there and i stay in there anywhere between 20 and i stay in there anywhere between 20 and i stay in there anywhere between 20 and 30 minutes and 30 minutes and 30 minutes depending on depending on depending on prop mostly depending on how intense my prop mostly depending on how intense my prop mostly depending on how intense my workout was workout was workout was because i've already elevated my core because i've already elevated my core because i've already elevated my core body temperature from my my high body temperature from my my high body temperature from my my high intensity workout um and then there are intensity workout um and then there are intensity workout um and then there are times when i don't work out i just get times when i don't work out i just get times when i don't work out i just get in the sauna i end up staying there in the sauna i end up staying there in the sauna i end up staying there longer for sure i'm in there for 30 longer for sure i'm in there for 30 longer for sure i'm in there for 30 minutes about 186 fahrenheit but i'm minutes about 186 fahrenheit but i'm minutes about 186 fahrenheit but i'm heat adapted like i i can't tell you heat adapted like i i can't tell you heat adapted like i i can't tell you like when i first started doing this i like when i first started doing this i like when i first started doing this i certainly um certainly um certainly um did not start out did not start out did not start out doing that uh so so um definitely doing that uh so so um definitely doing that uh so so um definitely uh keep that in mind i also like to to uh keep that in mind i also like to to uh keep that in mind i also like to to put hot water so i have um i have my put hot water so i have um i have my put hot water so i have um i have my little bucket and little bucket and little bucket and um i do i do put some hot water on the um i do i do put some hot water on the um i do i do put some hot water on the rocks my hygrometer like broke rocks my hygrometer like broke rocks my hygrometer like broke um um when i when i was measuring it when i when i was measuring it when i when i was measuring it i was getting about 20 to 30 humidity i was getting about 20 to 30 humidity i was getting about 20 to 30 humidity and then once i got 30 i was like i and then once i got 30 i was like i and then once i got 30 i was like i couldn't handle it so i went back down couldn't handle it so i went back down couldn't handle it so i went back down to 10 to 20 humidity because it just

1:00to 10 to 20 humidity because it just to 10 to 20 humidity because it just feels so hot feels so hot feels so hot so so uh that's typically those are my uh that's typically those are my uh that's typically those are my settings that i do and um settings that i do and um settings that i do and um i i i like like it frequency how how often i do it it it frequency how how often i do it it it frequency how how often i do it it really depends on what i have going on really depends on what i have going on really depends on what i have going on so so there are times when i'm like you know there are times when i'm like you know there are times when i'm like you know i'm doing it five days a week um but i'm doing it five days a week um but i'm doing it five days a week um but then there's other times when i'm like then there's other times when i'm like then there's other times when i'm like twice a week you know so um i i do try twice a week you know so um i i do try twice a week you know so um i i do try to my my my you know to my my my you know to my my my you know my baseline i try to keep is four i try my baseline i try to keep is four i try my baseline i try to keep is four i try to do about four times a week but i have to do about four times a week but i have to do about four times a week but i have been um doing a lot of jacuzzi so i've been um doing a lot of jacuzzi so i've been um doing a lot of jacuzzi so i've been doing jacuzzi at night time um it's been doing jacuzzi at night time um it's been doing jacuzzi at night time um it's it's like the only time my husband and i it's like the only time my husband and i it's like the only time my husband and i have to ourselves have to ourselves have to ourselves um you know once once our son goes to um you know once once our son goes to um you know once once our son goes to bed bed bed and so we like to go out in the jacuzzi and so we like to go out in the jacuzzi and so we like to go out in the jacuzzi look at the stars and it's very relaxing look at the stars and it's very relaxing look at the stars and it's very relaxing and time spent together but um our and time spent together but um our and time spent together but um our jacuzzi is about 104 degrees fahrenheit jacuzzi is about 104 degrees fahrenheit jacuzzi is about 104 degrees fahrenheit and there have been and there have been and there have been a lot of people have asked me you know a lot of people have asked me you know a lot of people have asked me you know can you get the same benefits from the can you get the same benefits from the can you get the same benefits from the sauna as you do from a hot bath

1:01sauna as you do from a hot bath sauna as you do from a hot bath and and we don't have all the empirical evidence we don't have all the empirical evidence we don't have all the empirical evidence to say that yes for sure but we have to say that yes for sure but we have to say that yes for sure but we have quite a bit that seems to be quite a bit that seems to be quite a bit that seems to be accumulating so a lot of the you know accumulating so a lot of the you know accumulating so a lot of the you know heat shock proteins have been shown to heat shock proteins have been shown to heat shock proteins have been shown to be elevated with hot baths brain derived be elevated with hot baths brain derived be elevated with hot baths brain derived neurotrophic factors increased with hot neurotrophic factors increased with hot neurotrophic factors increased with hot baths um there's been some effects on baths um there's been some effects on baths um there's been some effects on depression as well and cardiovascular depression as well and cardiovascular depression as well and cardiovascular health and so health and so health and so you know i you know i you know i i i might be going out on a limb here i i might be going out on a limb here i i might be going out on a limb here but i would say i really think that hot but i would say i really think that hot but i would say i really think that hot baths and jacuzzis um can have a similar baths and jacuzzis um can have a similar baths and jacuzzis um can have a similar effect now staying in there saying the effect now staying in there saying the effect now staying in there saying the jacuzzi for 20 minutes with your jacuzzi for 20 minutes with your jacuzzi for 20 minutes with your shoulders submerged down is kind of key shoulders submerged down is kind of key shoulders submerged down is kind of key and some of the hot bath studies were and some of the hot bath studies were and some of the hot bath studies were the same the hot bath studies used 104 the same the hot bath studies used 104 the same the hot bath studies used 104 degree fahrenheit water and they were degree fahrenheit water and they were degree fahrenheit water and they were people were submerged from their people were submerged from their people were submerged from their shoulders down as well shoulders down as well shoulders down as well but that's kind of my protocol that i've but that's kind of my protocol that i've but that's kind of my protocol that i've that i follow that i follow that i follow so you're typically using it to extend so you're typically using it to extend so you're typically using it to extend your workout you're getting your heart your workout you're getting your heart your workout you're getting your heart rate up on the bike or going for a run rate up on the bike or going for a run rate up on the bike or going for a run and then your heart rate remains and then your heart rate remains and then your heart rate remains elevated once you get into the sauna elevated once you get into the sauna elevated once you get into the sauna i do i do i do yeah that is that's that's kind of my

1:02yeah that is that's that's kind of my yeah that is that's that's kind of my jam i do but there are times when i i jam i do but there are times when i i jam i do but there are times when i i get in there without without working out get in there without without working out get in there without without working out but like yeah that's but like yeah that's but like yeah that's so you know sometimes it's like okay so you know sometimes it's like okay so you know sometimes it's like okay if i'm gonna get in the sauna for 20 to if i'm gonna get in the sauna for 20 to if i'm gonna get in the sauna for 20 to 30 minutes like i can i can hop on my 30 minutes like i can i can hop on my 30 minutes like i can i can hop on my peloton and just push it for 10 minutes peloton and just push it for 10 minutes peloton and just push it for 10 minutes do a 10 minute high intensity workout do a 10 minute high intensity workout do a 10 minute high intensity workout um and and just and take you know so um and and just and take you know so um and and just and take you know so basically what i'm doing is i'm taking basically what i'm doing is i'm taking basically what i'm doing is i'm taking my workout to the next level you know my workout to the next level you know my workout to the next level you know that's that's what i feel like the sauna that's that's what i feel like the sauna that's that's what i feel like the sauna is doing where it's like all right i did is doing where it's like all right i did is doing where it's like all right i did my workout and boom i'm gonna go to the my workout and boom i'm gonna go to the my workout and boom i'm gonna go to the next level next level next level so um and i always go back to that so um and i always go back to that so um and i always go back to that cardio respiratory fitness study where cardio respiratory fitness study where cardio respiratory fitness study where it's like better you know better better it's like better you know better better it's like better you know better better than exercise alone yeah than exercise alone yeah than exercise alone yeah and you mentioned the hot bath and you mentioned the hot bath and you mentioned the hot bath could potentially be a replacement for could potentially be a replacement for could potentially be a replacement for the sauna how about just a long extended the sauna how about just a long extended the sauna how about just a long extended hot shower for people that don't have a hot shower for people that don't have a hot shower for people that don't have a bath bath bath yeah that's interesting question you do yeah that's interesting question you do yeah that's interesting question you do i mean you get a lot of steam from i mean you get a lot of steam from i mean you get a lot of steam from showers as well showers as well showers as well so um you know i do think steam showers so um you know i do think steam showers so um you know i do think steam showers um can have some beneficial effects i um can have some beneficial effects i um can have some beneficial effects i don't think it's gonna be nearly don't think it's gonna be nearly don't think it's gonna be nearly anywhere near like the the data that i

1:03anywhere near like the the data that i anywhere near like the the data that i mentioned mentioned mentioned you know just because you know just because you know just because you're just not getting as hot when you're just not getting as hot when you're just not getting as hot when you're taking a hot shower like even you're taking a hot shower like even you're taking a hot shower like even like when you're in a hot bath like you like when you're in a hot bath like you like when you're in a hot bath like you can get really hot um can get really hot um can get really hot um you're just not getting quite as hot you're just not getting quite as hot you're just not getting quite as hot with with a hot shower but i do think with with a hot shower but i do think with with a hot shower but i do think there can be some some some benefits there can be some some some benefits there can be some some some benefits perhaps um i i would i would tend to go perhaps um i i would i would tend to go perhaps um i i would i would tend to go for the hot bath though if you have most for the hot bath though if you have most for the hot bath though if you have most people do have a bathtub i know not people do have a bathtub i know not people do have a bathtub i know not everyone does everyone does everyone does but if you do have a bathtub but if you do have a bathtub but if you do have a bathtub i would go for the hot bath over the hot i would go for the hot bath over the hot i would go for the hot bath over the hot shower shower shower got it and how about hydration how do got it and how about hydration how do got it and how about hydration how do you what's your kind of hydration you what's your kind of hydration you what's your kind of hydration protocol before and after the sauna protocol before and after the sauna protocol before and after the sauna yeah that's a good point um you know you yeah that's a good point um you know you yeah that's a good point um you know you do lose a lot of sweat in the sauna and do lose a lot of sweat in the sauna and do lose a lot of sweat in the sauna and with sweat you also can lose a lot of with sweat you also can lose a lot of with sweat you also can lose a lot of sodium sodium sodium uh and uh and uh and sodium is the main one but you can also sodium is the main one but you can also sodium is the main one but you can also lose you know some other electrolytes lose you know some other electrolytes lose you know some other electrolytes like magnesium potassium so um like magnesium potassium so um like magnesium potassium so um i definitely try i definitely stay i definitely try i definitely stay i definitely try i definitely stay hydrated and i switch between um hydrated and i switch between um hydrated and i switch between um sometimes i'll have like a green a green

1:04sometimes i'll have like a green a green sometimes i'll have like a green a green juice that i make juice that i make juice that i make with like with like with like some kale a little bit of lemon some some kale a little bit of lemon some some kale a little bit of lemon some cucumber cucumber cucumber um or so i'm getting some of the um or so i'm getting some of the um or so i'm getting some of the magnesium and potassium and stuff or magnesium and potassium and stuff or magnesium and potassium and stuff or i'll do um the noon i'll do um the noon i'll do um the noon the electrolyte supplement noon they the electrolyte supplement noon they the electrolyte supplement noon they have like a sugar-free version of it or have like a sugar-free version of it or have like a sugar-free version of it or sometimes i do um sometimes i do um sometimes i do um some keto some keto some keto it's a it's a ketone it's a it's a ketone it's a it's a ketone salt salt salt and it's called ketostart and it's called ketostart and it's called ketostart and um it has a lot of it has like and um it has a lot of it has like and um it has a lot of it has like magnesium it has potassium it has a lot magnesium it has potassium it has a lot magnesium it has potassium it has a lot of electrolytes in it and so i i'll i'll of electrolytes in it and so i i'll i'll of electrolytes in it and so i i'll i'll use that in fact i'm drinking that right use that in fact i'm drinking that right use that in fact i'm drinking that right now now but so that's that's typically what i do but so that's that's typically what i do but so that's that's typically what i do cool after after the sauna cool after after the sauna cool after after the sauna and speaking of after the sauna i know and speaking of after the sauna i know and speaking of after the sauna i know this is a whole another discussion but this is a whole another discussion but this is a whole another discussion but um um cold therapy you know do you ever get in cold therapy you know do you ever get in cold therapy you know do you ever get in the cold shower or do a cold plunge jump the cold shower or do a cold plunge jump the cold shower or do a cold plunge jump in a frozen lake after the sauna in a frozen lake after the sauna in a frozen lake after the sauna i definitely don't jump on a frozen lake i definitely don't jump on a frozen lake i definitely don't jump on a frozen lake um unless i'm visiting another country um unless i'm visiting another country um unless i'm visiting another country like finland um but uh yeah i do so um i

1:05like finland um but uh yeah i do so um i like finland um but uh yeah i do so um i i do have a cold plunge and i also do i do have a cold plunge and i also do i do have a cold plunge and i also do like cold showers as well i don't do it like cold showers as well i don't do it like cold showers as well i don't do it as frequently as i should as frequently as i should as frequently as i should um um you know there's a lot of benefits to to you know there's a lot of benefits to to you know there's a lot of benefits to to the cold as well and and in fact a lot the cold as well and and in fact a lot the cold as well and and in fact a lot of these cultures that we talked about of these cultures that we talked about of these cultures that we talked about earlier like finland and russia earlier like finland and russia earlier like finland and russia like like they they a large percentage of them go they they a large percentage of them go they they a large percentage of them go from hot and then into cold um from hot and then into cold um from hot and then into cold um i don't go immediately into it um i i don't go immediately into it um i i don't go immediately into it um i because when you're when you're under because when you're when you're under because when you're when you're under when you're in this in the heat in this when you're in this in the heat in this when you're in this in the heat in this like a sauna or a hot bath like a sauna or a hot bath like a sauna or a hot bath vasodilation is occurring um you're vasodilation is occurring um you're vasodilation is occurring um you're increasing your blood flow um you know increasing your blood flow um you know increasing your blood flow um you know you're you're getting vasodilation and you're you're getting vasodilation and you're you're getting vasodilation and then the complete opposite happens when then the complete opposite happens when then the complete opposite happens when you go into a cold plunge or cold water you go into a cold plunge or cold water you go into a cold plunge or cold water or cold water immersion to in some shape or cold water immersion to in some shape or cold water immersion to in some shape or form or form or form you're getting your vasoconstriction is you're getting your vasoconstriction is you're getting your vasoconstriction is happening happening happening and so um i've had i've had some scary and so um i've had i've had some scary and so um i've had i've had some scary incidents where going incidents where going incidents where going from one extreme directly into the other from one extreme directly into the other from one extreme directly into the other without waiting like five minutes or a

1:06without waiting like five minutes or a without waiting like five minutes or a few minutes you know few minutes you know few minutes you know where my blood pressure or something where my blood pressure or something where my blood pressure or something just goes really low and i just like i just goes really low and i just like i just goes really low and i just like i get super dizzy and it's a little scary get super dizzy and it's a little scary get super dizzy and it's a little scary so so so um i do think that exercising caution so um i do think that exercising caution so um i do think that exercising caution when going from extremes like that when going from extremes like that when going from extremes like that is important is important is important so but i do especially in the summertime so but i do especially in the summertime so but i do especially in the summertime i like to to run i run out into the the i like to to run i run out into the the i like to to run i run out into the the cold plunge like you know a couple cold plunge like you know a couple cold plunge like you know a couple minutes after i do the sauna after i minutes after i do the sauna after i minutes after i do the sauna after i like rest for a few minutes two to five like rest for a few minutes two to five like rest for a few minutes two to five minutes minutes you mentioned that you're really well you mentioned that you're really well you mentioned that you're really well heat adapted to the sauna because of all heat adapted to the sauna because of all heat adapted to the sauna because of all your regular use your regular use your regular use for someone that's kind of building for someone that's kind of building for someone that's kind of building their heat tolerance up their heat tolerance up their heat tolerance up is there a way that they can kind of is there a way that they can kind of is there a way that they can kind of tell how long is too long in the sauna tell how long is too long in the sauna tell how long is too long in the sauna are there any kind of signs they should are there any kind of signs they should are there any kind of signs they should be looking for like ooh i should be looking for like ooh i should be looking for like ooh i should probably take a break and not push it probably take a break and not push it probably take a break and not push it yeah i think you know your heart starts yeah i think you know your heart starts yeah i think you know your heart starts to really your heart rate starts to get to really your heart rate starts to get to really your heart rate starts to get elevated and you know you you definitely elevated and you know you you definitely elevated and you know you you definitely want to to push past that point um once

1:07want to to push past that point um once want to to push past that point um once you're heat adapted but you know and you you're heat adapted but you know and you you're heat adapted but you know and you start to feel uncomfortable but you start to feel uncomfortable but you start to feel uncomfortable but you reach a point where reach a point where reach a point where your heart's going really fast and you your heart's going really fast and you your heart's going really fast and you just feel you just feel really really just feel you just feel really really just feel you just feel really really uncomfortable and i think that's that's uncomfortable and i think that's that's uncomfortable and i think that's that's that's the time i usually like to get that's the time i usually like to get that's the time i usually like to get out i think people people should out i think people people should out i think people people should definitely listen to their bodies i mean definitely listen to their bodies i mean definitely listen to their bodies i mean getting out when you just experience the getting out when you just experience the getting out when you just experience the most slight bit of uncomfortableness most slight bit of uncomfortableness most slight bit of uncomfortableness maybe not the way to go maybe not the way to go maybe not the way to go but like you know when you're in there but like you know when you're in there but like you know when you're in there you know like you're feeling like this you know like you're feeling like this you know like you're feeling like this is i've is i've is i've i'm getting really hot and again like i'm getting really hot and again like i'm getting really hot and again like once you hit the 20 minute mark once you hit the 20 minute mark once you hit the 20 minute mark that's really all that's needed you know that's really all that's needed you know that's really all that's needed you know 20 minutes 174 degree fahrenheit um 20 minutes 174 degree fahrenheit um 20 minutes 174 degree fahrenheit um that's what all these studies have shown that's what all these studies have shown that's what all these studies have shown have been beneficial for reducing have been beneficial for reducing have been beneficial for reducing cardiovascular disease mortality and cardiovascular disease mortality and cardiovascular disease mortality and all-cause mortality and alzheimer's and all-cause mortality and alzheimer's and all-cause mortality and alzheimer's and dementia risk so dementia risk so dementia risk so so that's i think a pretty good rule of so that's i think a pretty good rule of so that's i think a pretty good rule of thumb as well i'm you know 20 minutes thumb as well i'm you know 20 minutes thumb as well i'm you know 20 minutes and you can also have a timer outside of and you can also have a timer outside of and you can also have a timer outside of your sauna i used to do that i used to your sauna i used to do that i used to your sauna i used to do that i used to have a timer clock and it's like okay i have a timer clock and it's like okay i have a timer clock and it's like okay i reached my time reached my time reached my time um um so so that's also another option

1:08so so that's also another option so so that's also another option i think it's good to have an alarm i think it's good to have an alarm i think it's good to have an alarm because sometimes you know you can fall because sometimes you know you can fall because sometimes you know you can fall asleep in there it's it can be pretty asleep in there it's it can be pretty asleep in there it's it can be pretty comfortable especially after your heat comfortable especially after your heat comfortable especially after your heat adapted so i'm a big fan of of the alarm adapted so i'm a big fan of of the alarm adapted so i'm a big fan of of the alarm how to let me know that like 25 minutes how to let me know that like 25 minutes how to let me know that like 25 minutes are up yeah if you're prone to falling are up yeah if you're prone to falling are up yeah if you're prone to falling asleep in the sauna you should always asleep in the sauna you should always asleep in the sauna you should always have someone with you in the sauna for have someone with you in the sauna for have someone with you in the sauna for sure i would i would because that could sure i would i would because that could sure i would i would because that could be dangerous yeah they're you know and i be dangerous yeah they're you know and i be dangerous yeah they're you know and i know you wanted to cover this kyle the know you wanted to cover this kyle the know you wanted to cover this kyle the the contraindications of sonny yes yeah the contraindications of sonny yes yeah the contraindications of sonny yes yeah let's talk about that i mean as you let's talk about that i mean as you let's talk about that i mean as you mentioned like this is not medical mentioned like this is not medical mentioned like this is not medical advice and um people absolutely should advice and um people absolutely should advice and um people absolutely should talk to their physician before talk to their physician before talk to their physician before doing any sort sort of type of extreme doing any sort sort of type of extreme doing any sort sort of type of extreme thermal stress thermal stress thermal stress but the sauna has generally it's but the sauna has generally it's but the sauna has generally it's generally speaking it's safe for most generally speaking it's safe for most generally speaking it's safe for most people people people it's well tolerated most healthy people it's well tolerated most healthy people it's well tolerated most healthy people even people that have stable even people that have stable even people that have stable cardiac disease can be and if you have cardiac disease can be and if you have cardiac disease can be and if you have cardiac disease you have to talk to your cardiac disease you have to talk to your cardiac disease you have to talk to your physician but i'm just i'm speaking to physician but i'm just i'm speaking to physician but i'm just i'm speaking to the literature here um the literature here um the literature here um you know again it's easier for people you know again it's easier for people you know again it's easier for people that can't perform

1:09that can't perform that can't perform physical activity i found it easier for physical activity i found it easier for physical activity i found it easier for like my mom who's sort of been a like my mom who's sort of been a like my mom who's sort of been a sedentary person most of her life i can sedentary person most of her life i can sedentary person most of her life i can more easily get her in the sauna than i more easily get her in the sauna than i more easily get her in the sauna than i can on the peloton can on the peloton can on the peloton so i think there's a you know a use for so i think there's a you know a use for so i think there's a you know a use for that but that but that but there are people um there are some some there are people um there are some some there are people um there are some some things and people that that should not things and people that that should not things and people that that should not get into the sauna or should definitely get into the sauna or should definitely get into the sauna or should definitely run everything by their physician um run everything by their physician um run everything by their physician um alcohol should never be used in the alcohol should never be used in the alcohol should never be used in the sauna or before going in the sauna and sauna or before going in the sauna and sauna or before going in the sauna and um you know that that can lead to like um you know that that can lead to like um you know that that can lead to like that that can be deadly it can be very that that can be deadly it can be very that that can be deadly it can be very very dangerous so so alcohol is a big very dangerous so so alcohol is a big very dangerous so so alcohol is a big no-no no-no no-no people that are elderly people that are elderly people that are elderly that are prone to like really low blood that are prone to like really low blood that are prone to like really low blood pressure it could be dangerous for them pressure it could be dangerous for them pressure it could be dangerous for them to get in the sauna as well to get in the sauna as well to get in the sauna as well people that have had a recent heart people that have had a recent heart people that have had a recent heart attack or have attack or have attack or have some some some cardiac diseases like unstable angina cardiac diseases like unstable angina cardiac diseases like unstable angina pectoris or severe aortic pectoris or severe aortic pectoris or severe aortic stenosis stenosis stenosis um that can be contraindicated so that um that can be contraindicated so that um that can be contraindicated so that sauna would not be good for them now sauna would not be good for them now sauna would not be good for them now people that have had a heart attack that people that have had a heart attack that people that have had a heart attack that have it's been you know a while and i've

1:10have it's been you know a while and i've have it's been you know a while and i've been stable like talk to your physician been stable like talk to your physician been stable like talk to your physician because there have been studies showing because there have been studies showing because there have been studies showing that sauna use can help with that but um that sauna use can help with that but um that sauna use can help with that but um again it's like after time has passed again it's like after time has passed again it's like after time has passed so um that would be something to talk so um that would be something to talk so um that would be something to talk about with uh your primary care about with uh your primary care about with uh your primary care physician how about kids or pregnant physician how about kids or pregnant physician how about kids or pregnant people people oh great question yeah and i i think we oh great question yeah and i i think we oh great question yeah and i i think we also cover this a little bit in our in also cover this a little bit in our in also cover this a little bit in our in our review article um our review article um our review article um kit children children don't have the kit children children don't have the kit children children don't have the same type of same type of same type of thermal regulation mechanisms in play thermal regulation mechanisms in play thermal regulation mechanisms in play that adults do so like kids aren't that adults do so like kids aren't that adults do so like kids aren't sweating to cool themselves like adults sweating to cool themselves like adults sweating to cool themselves like adults do like the same i'm not saying kids do like the same i'm not saying kids do like the same i'm not saying kids don't ever sweat they just they're not don't ever sweat they just they're not don't ever sweat they just they're not profusely sweating to cool themselves profusely sweating to cool themselves profusely sweating to cool themselves down and so um down and so um down and so um sauna sauna can you know anything that's sauna sauna can you know anything that's sauna sauna can you know anything that's more than five minutes can be can be more than five minutes can be can be more than five minutes can be can be dangerous for for a child so um and and dangerous for for a child so um and and dangerous for for a child so um and and certainly like really young children you certainly like really young children you certainly like really young children you know i like i think that's that's know i like i think that's that's know i like i think that's that's in in places like finland i know like

1:11in in places like finland i know like in in places like finland i know like some children are using the sauna some children are using the sauna some children are using the sauna but um but um but um you know they have these cultural you know they have these cultural you know they have these cultural sort of guidelines there where you know sort of guidelines there where you know sort of guidelines there where you know there's a certain age and it's like only there's a certain age and it's like only there's a certain age and it's like only a couple of minutes a couple of minutes a couple of minutes um you know so so i i've i'm not putting um you know so so i i've i'm not putting um you know so so i i've i'm not putting i'm not getting my son in the sauna i'd i'm not getting my son in the sauna i'd i'm not getting my son in the sauna i'd rather have him go for a hike with me or rather have him go for a hike with me or rather have him go for a hike with me or you know get get exercise another way you know get get exercise another way you know get get exercise another way um just just because i don't want to um just just because i don't want to um just just because i don't want to take any risk and then pregnant women take any risk and then pregnant women take any risk and then pregnant women again again again i certainly stayed out of the sauna the i certainly stayed out of the sauna the i certainly stayed out of the sauna the entire time that i was pregnant entire time that i was pregnant entire time that i was pregnant and um i think it's it's probably best and um i think it's it's probably best and um i think it's it's probably best because you know there's been a lot of because you know there's been a lot of because you know there's been a lot of studies that that have come out over the studies that that have come out over the studies that that have come out over the last few decades with jacuzzi bathing last few decades with jacuzzi bathing last few decades with jacuzzi bathing you know women that are doing jacuzzi you know women that are doing jacuzzi you know women that are doing jacuzzi bathing that are pregnant and it and it bathing that are pregnant and it and it bathing that are pregnant and it and it can lead to um can lead to um can lead to um fetal abnormalities fetal abnormalities fetal abnormalities so i think it's i think that's a high so i think it's i think that's a high so i think it's i think that's a high risk thing for pregnant women and risk thing for pregnant women and risk thing for pregnant women and you know i'm sure you'll find pregnant you know i'm sure you'll find pregnant you know i'm sure you'll find pregnant women in finland who who said they use women in finland who who said they use women in finland who who said they use the sauna but um why take the risk you

1:12the sauna but um why take the risk you the sauna but um why take the risk you know just just take take that nine know just just take take that nine know just just take take that nine months off months off months off at what age will you allow your son to at what age will you allow your son to at what age will you allow your son to go in the sauna go in the sauna go in the sauna uh that's a good question um uh that's a good question um uh that's a good question um you know he's four years old right now you know he's four years old right now you know he's four years old right now and and you know you know maybe maybe maybe i could think about it maybe maybe maybe i could think about it maybe maybe maybe i could think about it in another four years in another four years in another four years about you know eight or nine and and and about you know eight or nine and and and about you know eight or nine and and and at that point it's still going to just at that point it's still going to just at that point it's still going to just be a little exposure be a little exposure be a little exposure yeah build build it up slow yeah build build it up slow yeah build build it up slow yeah yeah yeah what about uh continuous glucose what about uh continuous glucose what about uh continuous glucose monitors these are really popular with monitors these are really popular with monitors these are really popular with some people right now and i've talked to some people right now and i've talked to some people right now and i've talked to a few people that say a few people that say a few people that say that when they use the sauna their that when they use the sauna their that when they use the sauna their glucose levels will rise sometimes glucose levels will rise sometimes glucose levels will rise sometimes significantly in the sauna significantly in the sauna significantly in the sauna have you noticed this as well and what have you noticed this as well and what have you noticed this as well and what do you think is going on here do you think is going on here do you think is going on here um i have noticed it i do i also wear um i have noticed it i do i also wear um i have noticed it i do i also wear continuous glucose monitor continuous glucose monitor continuous glucose monitor a lot of the time

1:13i think i think there's a few i think i think there's a few possibilities here so for one it like possibilities here so for one it like possibilities here so for one it like goes back to normal goes back to normal goes back to normal um um you know shortly after cooling down you know shortly after cooling down you know shortly after cooling down you know i think because you're sweating you know i think because you're sweating you know i think because you're sweating so much so much so much you could possibly be changing you could possibly be changing you could possibly be changing you know you're you're basically you know you're you're basically you know you're you're basically changing the the concentration changing the the concentration changing the the concentration of the sugar in in your blood could just of the sugar in in your blood could just of the sugar in in your blood could just be sort of temporary transiently seems be sort of temporary transiently seems be sort of temporary transiently seems like it's higher because you're sweating like it's higher because you're sweating like it's higher because you're sweating you're sweating out more water from your you're sweating out more water from your you're sweating out more water from your plasma plasma plasma um um that's one one possibility that's one one possibility that's one one possibility um you know the other possibility is um you know the other possibility is um you know the other possibility is i've seen some studies where i've seen some studies where i've seen some studies where that seems to only happen that seems to only happen that seems to only happen uh uh uh when you go into the sauna in a fed when you go into the sauna in a fed when you go into the sauna in a fed state rather than fasted state state rather than fasted state state rather than fasted state so so and i don't exactly know you know and i don't exactly know you know and i don't exactly know you know because because because the because the because the long-term sauna use is associated with long-term sauna use is associated with long-term sauna use is associated with improved fasting glucose and improved improved fasting glucose and improved improved fasting glucose and improved insulin sensitivity insulin sensitivity insulin sensitivity to me at the end of the day that's to me at the end of the day that's

1:14to me at the end of the day that's what's important what's important what's important um and and so i think there's there may um and and so i think there's there may um and and so i think there's there may just be some kind of funny thing going just be some kind of funny thing going just be some kind of funny thing going on honestly i might have a lot to do on honestly i might have a lot to do on honestly i might have a lot to do with the sweating with the sweating with the sweating when you're in there when you're in there when you're in there um um but it's just it's not something i'm but it's just it's not something i'm but it's just it's not something i'm really concerned about it is something really concerned about it is something really concerned about it is something i've noticed though yeah and that makes i've noticed though yeah and that makes i've noticed though yeah and that makes sense that if you're sweating out volume sense that if you're sweating out volume sense that if you're sweating out volume that the concentration of sugar is going that the concentration of sugar is going that the concentration of sugar is going to appear higher to appear higher to appear higher right but that's not it's not a real right but that's not it's not a real right but that's not it's not a real thing it's just concentration yeah yeah thing it's just concentration yeah yeah thing it's just concentration yeah yeah um what are some limit you've already um what are some limit you've already um what are some limit you've already talked about some um but what are some talked about some um but what are some talked about some um but what are some of the limitations of the current sauna of the limitations of the current sauna of the limitations of the current sauna research that's available and what research that's available and what research that's available and what research do you hope research do you hope research do you hope is completed in the coming years about is completed in the coming years about is completed in the coming years about sauna use sauna use i think so with any observational study i think so with any observational study i think so with any observational study you know there's the the limitation of you know there's the the limitation of you know there's the the limitation of you can never really establish causality you can never really establish causality you can never really establish causality i will say this i will say this i will say this you know you know all of all of the work coming out of um all of all of the work coming out of um all of all of the work coming out of um dr yari laukanin's lab dr yari laukanin's lab dr yari laukanin's lab they they correct for so many they they correct for so many they they correct for so many confounding factors i mean we're talking

1:15confounding factors i mean we're talking confounding factors i mean we're talking they're looking at cholesterol levels they're looking at cholesterol levels they're looking at cholesterol levels they're looking at exercise cardio you they're looking at exercise cardio you they're looking at exercise cardio you know exercise know exercise know exercise and physical activity and physical activity and physical activity they're looking at all the usual they're looking at all the usual they're looking at all the usual suspects you know where you have suspects you know where you have suspects you know where you have socioeconomic status education socioeconomic status education socioeconomic status education they're looking at gender they're looking at gender they're looking at gender they look at heart disease pre-existing they look at heart disease pre-existing they look at heart disease pre-existing heart disease they look i mean heart disease they look i mean heart disease they look i mean hypertension hypertension hypertension all those things all those things all those things so after all those things are corrected so after all those things are corrected so after all those things are corrected for for sauna use is still associated with a sauna use is still associated with a sauna use is still associated with a lower you know cardiovascular death you lower you know cardiovascular death you lower you know cardiovascular death you know mortality associated with know mortality associated with know mortality associated with cardiovascular disease and all-cause cardiovascular disease and all-cause cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality etc and again the mortality etc and again the mortality etc and again the dose-dependent nature of it also dose-dependent nature of it also dose-dependent nature of it also really really really i think speaks to it being more causal i think speaks to it being more causal i think speaks to it being more causal because you're seeing the more frequent because you're seeing the more frequent because you're seeing the more frequent it happens the more robust the effect it happens the more robust the effect it happens the more robust the effect and even at the level of the amount of and even at the level of the amount of and even at the level of the amount of time in the sauna and that's what really time in the sauna and that's what really time in the sauna and that's what really convinced me when i when i saw that data convinced me when i when i saw that data convinced me when i when i saw that data i like looked through one of the graphs i like looked through one of the graphs i like looked through one of the graphs and i was like and i was like and i was like oh so not only is it four to seven times oh so not only is it four to seven times oh so not only is it four to seven times a week but the people that did it four

1:16a week but the people that did it four a week but the people that did it four to seven times a week and only stayed in to seven times a week and only stayed in to seven times a week and only stayed in their 11 minutes their 11 minutes their 11 minutes only had a fraction of the robust only had a fraction of the robust only had a fraction of the robust effects that people that did it four to effects that people that did it four to effects that people that did it four to seven times a week and stayed in there seven times a week and stayed in there seven times a week and stayed in there 20 minutes 20 minutes 20 minutes so so the limitations are what they are with the limitations are what they are with the limitations are what they are with any observational study any observational study any observational study however i feel like this data with the however i feel like this data with the however i feel like this data with the dose dependent nature of the frequency dose dependent nature of the frequency dose dependent nature of the frequency and duration and duration and duration really strengthen the data in my opinion really strengthen the data in my opinion really strengthen the data in my opinion in addition to correcting for some very in addition to correcting for some very in addition to correcting for some very important confounding factors important confounding factors important confounding factors i would like to see i would like to see i would like to see more research on saunas i'd like to see more research on saunas i'd like to see more research on saunas i'd like to see like like you know randomized controlled trials you know randomized controlled trials you know randomized controlled trials with more people where they're doing with more people where they're doing with more people where they're doing more sauna research um not only in more sauna research um not only in more sauna research um not only in finland but in the united states you finland but in the united states you finland but in the united states you know i i'm so excited that dr ashley know i i'm so excited that dr ashley know i i'm so excited that dr ashley mason is doing this study with sauna use mason is doing this study with sauna use mason is doing this study with sauna use and depression but um we need more of it and depression but um we need more of it and depression but um we need more of it we need more people looking at that like we need more people looking at that like we need more people looking at that like imagine if we have an alternative imagine if we have an alternative imagine if we have an alternative treatment for depression um in many treatment for depression um in many treatment for depression um in many cases these people have um major

1:17cases these people have um major cases these people have um major depressive disorder that you know depressive disorder that you know depressive disorder that you know they're basically they're basically they're basically not able to be treated by you know ssris not able to be treated by you know ssris not able to be treated by you know ssris or other pharmacological treatments it's or other pharmacological treatments it's or other pharmacological treatments it's not working for them so um not working for them so um not working for them so um you can imagine a world where you can imagine a world where you can imagine a world where people can have saunas in their home or people can have saunas in their home or people can have saunas in their home or they can go to some kind of center where they can go to some kind of center where they can go to some kind of center where they can use the sauna they can use the sauna they can use the sauna and it helps treat their depression and and it helps treat their depression and and it helps treat their depression and the side effects are like the side effects are like the side effects are like reduced death from cardiovascular reduced death from cardiovascular reduced death from cardiovascular disease and reduced alzheimer's disease disease and reduced alzheimer's disease disease and reduced alzheimer's disease risk i mean we're talking beneficial risk i mean we're talking beneficial risk i mean we're talking beneficial side effects right so um side effects right so um side effects right so um i i just i really want to see this this i i just i really want to see this this i i just i really want to see this this area of research explode like it's it's area of research explode like it's it's area of research explode like it's it's it's really been you know there's been it's really been you know there's been it's really been you know there's been more and more research coming out but more and more research coming out but more and more research coming out but there's you know nih isn't funding this there's you know nih isn't funding this there's you know nih isn't funding this research um research um research um mostly i think i think ashley's now just mostly i think i think ashley's now just mostly i think i think ashley's now just landed one of her and first nih grants landed one of her and first nih grants landed one of her and first nih grants for the sauna for the sauna for the sauna but um she had to do a whole pilot study but um she had to do a whole pilot study but um she had to do a whole pilot study to get there and um so i'd like to see

1:18to get there and um so i'd like to see to get there and um so i'd like to see i'd like to see you know more research i'd like to see you know more research i'd like to see you know more research done in more randomized controlled done in more randomized controlled done in more randomized controlled trials and um trials and um trials and um and i think that totally can be done it and i think that totally can be done it and i think that totally can be done it just it just hasn't been just it just hasn't been just it just hasn't been and of course there's tons of and of course there's tons of and of course there's tons of limitations with what i'm about to say limitations with what i'm about to say limitations with what i'm about to say because it's a population-based uh because it's a population-based uh because it's a population-based uh effect but it's interesting i just saw effect but it's interesting i just saw effect but it's interesting i just saw an article that finland was rated as the an article that finland was rated as the an article that finland was rated as the happiest country overall and i know happiest country overall and i know happiest country overall and i know there's almost as many saunas as people there's almost as many saunas as people there's almost as many saunas as people in finland so interesting association in finland so interesting association in finland so interesting association there that may or may not be related to there that may or may not be related to there that may or may not be related to saunas there's a lot of other characters saunas there's a lot of other characters saunas there's a lot of other characters at play but i think i think the finns at play but i think i think the finns at play but i think i think the finns have some good things going on with have some good things going on with have some good things going on with their uh their sauna use their uh their sauna use their uh their sauna use definitely yeah definitely yeah definitely yeah anything this has been so informative anything this has been so informative anything this has been so informative any other um any other um any other um things that we didn't cover that you things that we didn't cover that you things that we didn't cover that you want to want to want to cover or or speak about cover or or speak about cover or or speak about um um you know i think i think we covered most you know i think i think we covered most you know i think i think we covered most of it you know the the the of it you know the the the of it you know the the the awesomeness of the heat shock proteins awesomeness of the heat shock proteins awesomeness of the heat shock proteins as well you know heat check proteins as well you know heat check proteins as well you know heat check proteins also

1:19also people that have a genetic people that have a genetic people that have a genetic what's called a polymorphism so this is what's called a polymorphism so this is what's called a polymorphism so this is like a mutation that happens in a like a mutation that happens in a like a mutation that happens in a certain percentage of the population certain percentage of the population certain percentage of the population that's like more than one percent that's like more than one percent that's like more than one percent um um in their heat shock protein in their heat shock protein in their heat shock protein 70 70 70 that makes them have a more active heat that makes them have a more active heat that makes them have a more active heat shock protein there they on average live shock protein there they on average live shock protein there they on average live um one year longer um one year longer um one year longer if if they have one copy of that they if if they have one copy of that they if if they have one copy of that they live one year longer than people that live one year longer than people that live one year longer than people that don't have any copies and if people have don't have any copies and if people have don't have any copies and if people have two copies in other words they got one two copies in other words they got one two copies in other words they got one from their mom and one from their dad from their mom and one from their dad from their mom and one from their dad making it even more robust they live on making it even more robust they live on making it even more robust they live on average two years longer than people average two years longer than people average two years longer than people that don't have an that don't have an that don't have an overactive heat shock protein 70. so overactive heat shock protein 70. so overactive heat shock protein 70. so um um i i just think it's it's i like i i just think it's it's i like i i just think it's it's i like understanding the molecular mechanisms understanding the molecular mechanisms understanding the molecular mechanisms and um and um you know i know that sauna robustly you know i know that sauna robustly you know i know that sauna robustly activates heat shock proteins activates heat shock proteins activates heat shock proteins so um i think we covered a lot of really so um i think we covered a lot of really so um i think we covered a lot of really important important important stuff in there stuff in there stuff in there as far as i could think about it as far as i could think about it as far as i could think about it that was that was great i learned a ton that was that was great i learned a ton that was that was great i learned a ton and for people that want to hear more

1:20and for people that want to hear more and for people that want to hear more from you from you from you where can they find you besides your where can they find you besides your where can they find you besides your youtube channel and website youtube channel and website youtube channel and website foundmyfitness foundmyfitness foundmyfitness yeah we have um a podcast on apple yeah we have um a podcast on apple yeah we have um a podcast on apple podcast and spotify as well for people podcast and spotify as well for people podcast and spotify as well for people that like to listen to that like to listen to that like to listen to podcasts we interview experts in the podcasts we interview experts in the podcasts we interview experts in the field of field of field of aging or sauna research or aging or sauna research or aging or sauna research or you know nutrition you know nutrition you know nutrition so um we put those podcasts on apple so um we put those podcasts on apple so um we put those podcasts on apple podcast on itunes and also on youtube we podcast on itunes and also on youtube we podcast on itunes and also on youtube we have a lot of have a lot of have a lot of slides and graphics much like you guys slides and graphics much like you guys slides and graphics much like you guys do at medcram where we try to to cite do at medcram where we try to to cite do at medcram where we try to to cite information and put extra information on information and put extra information on information and put extra information on there so it's found myfitness all one there so it's found myfitness all one there so it's found myfitness all one word word word um and that's our youtube channel so um and that's our youtube channel so um and that's our youtube channel so that's that's probably our main our main that's that's probably our main our main that's that's probably our main our main one is the youtube channel i also do one is the youtube channel i also do one is the youtube channel i also do short videos i just put one out on the short videos i just put one out on the short videos i just put one out on the metabolic and brain effects and benefits metabolic and brain effects and benefits metabolic and brain effects and benefits of cold exposure so i know we didn't get of cold exposure so i know we didn't get of cold exposure so i know we didn't get into that today we sort of touched on it into that today we sort of touched on it into that today we sort of touched on it but there's also a lot of metabolic and but there's also a lot of metabolic and but there's also a lot of metabolic and brain benefits of cold exposure as well

1:21brain benefits of cold exposure as well brain benefits of cold exposure as well so we just we just put out a video on so we just we just put out a video on so we just we just put out a video on that like yesterday i think or two days that like yesterday i think or two days that like yesterday i think or two days ago ago so um that's where you can find me well so um that's where you can find me well so um that's where you can find me well dr patrick thanks so much for all the dr patrick thanks so much for all the dr patrick thanks so much for all the information um information um information um really appreciate it and hope to chat really appreciate it and hope to chat really appreciate it and hope to chat again sometime soon again sometime soon again sometime soon absolutely my pleasure kyle thank you so absolutely my pleasure kyle thank you so absolutely my pleasure kyle thank you so much for having me on i'm a big fan of much for having me on i'm a big fan of much for having me on i'm a big fan of medgram [Music] you

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Transcript by Tealeaf 🌿 | YouTube

Contrast Collective | YouTube

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The Exercise Mimic: How Heat Stresses the Cardiovascular System

What separates sauna from passive rest is the depth of physiological change it produces. Within minutes of entering a hot room, heart rate climbs to approximately 120 beats per minute — the same intensity range as a sustained moderate aerobic effort. Core body temperature rises, sweating begins, and the cardiovascular system works to maintain equilibrium under thermal load. The body cannot distinguish, at a systemic level, between the demands of a long run and the demands of a well-used sauna.

Plasma volume increases as the body mobilizes fluids to support circulation and cooling. Blood is redirected to the skin and working muscles to facilitate heat dissipation and sustain thermoregulation. After the session ends, blood pressure falls below pre-session baseline and resting heart rate follows — responses that mirror the recovery window following moderate exercise almost exactly. When researchers compared sauna use directly to exercise, the cardiovascular signatures were strikingly similar, reinforcing that the two protocols stress — and strengthen — overlapping systems.

The hypertension data makes this connection precise. Two to three sauna sessions per week are associated with a 24% lower risk of developing high blood pressure compared to once-weekly use. Four to seven sessions per week push that reduction to 46%. Beyond the population data, controlled observations show that a single session lowers both systolic and diastolic blood pressure in the hours that follow. That acute, measurable drop provides a causal signal — the mechanism is real, reproducible, and visible within a single visit.

Stroke risk follows the same cardiovascular arc. Research from the same Finnish cohort associates approximately 40% lower stroke risk in those using the sauna four to seven times per week compared to once-weekly users. The protective effect spans the full range of cardiovascular endpoints — sudden cardiac death, coronary heart disease, hypertension, stroke — with consistent dose-dependence across each. This is not coincidence; it is the systematic signature of a practice that genuinely benefits the cardiovascular system from multiple angles.

The cardiovascular system adapts to repeated thermal stress much as it adapts to physical training. Arterial walls grow more elastic, the heart becomes more efficient at pumping under demand, and the regulatory systems governing blood pressure grow increasingly responsive. This is hormesis at work: a controlled stressor applied with intention, producing resilience proportional to the dose. The body learns to manage heat with less effort — the same adaptive economy that marks a trained athlete relative to someone who has never deliberately challenged their cardiovascular system.

This is why heat exposure belongs in a performance and longevity protocol, not just a relaxation room. The sauna earns its place not by being easy, but by being precise — placing a calibrated demand on the cardiovascular system and waiting for the body to build toward it. Repeated sessions, held close together in the week, compound that adaptation into lasting protection. The protocol that serves longevity and the protocol that serves recovery are the same protocol.

Sauna use is essentially mimicking moderate aerobic cardiovascular exercise.

Brain Health, Dementia, and the Case for Health Span

The brain and the cardiovascular system are not separate systems following separate arcs. They are tightly interdependent — vascular health is brain health, and what protects one tends to protect the other. Adequate blood flow to the brain is among the most important determinants of cognitive resilience as the years accumulate. Improving circulation is a pathway not only toward cardiovascular longevity, but toward sustained clarity, sharp recall, and protection against the slow erosion of neurological function that defines so much late-life experience.

Several pathways likely connect heat exposure to brain protection. Better circulation delivers more oxygen to vulnerable neural tissue; reduced arterial stiffness lowers the risk of the small vascular events that compound into cognitive decline over years. Heat exposure also triggers the production of heat shock proteins — cellular repair agents that help maintain the structural integrity of proteins under stress, including in neural tissue — supporting recovery at a molecular level and reducing the kind of cellular damage that accumulates into neurodegenerative disease.

The Finnish research makes this protection concrete. At four to seven sauna sessions per week, observational data associates regular heat exposure with a 60 to 66% reduction in dementia and Alzheimer's disease risk compared to once-weekly use. At two to three sessions, that reduction sits at roughly 20%. The dose-dependent gradient holds here as it does across all cardiovascular outcomes: more frequent practice, deeper protection, and a more favorable trajectory for cognitive health over time.

All-cause mortality broadens the lens further. People using the sauna four to seven times per week show a 40% lower risk of dying from any cause compared to once-weekly users. This is not a measure of any single disease; it captures the accumulated protective effect of consistent practice across every major category of mortality. It is the kind of signal that appears when a lifestyle variable is genuinely foundational — when it is working across systems, not just one.

Health span is the right frame for understanding what these numbers mean. Living longer matters less if the added years arrive with cognitive decline, immobility, or chronic disease. Health span means compressing that period of decline — the years of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, cardiovascular disability, and metabolic failure — into a shorter window at the end of a long life, and extending the years of vitality that precede it. Regular sauna practice, at the frequencies this research supports, aligns directly with this goal: preserving not just longevity, but the quality of the life being lived.

The side effects are like reduced death from cardiovascular disease and reduced Alzheimer's disease risk.

The primary research lineage here belongs to Dr. Jari Laukkanen and colleagues in eastern Finland, whose long-running studies have examined sauna exposure across cardiovascular, neurological, and metabolic outcomes with rigorous consistency. This is peer-reviewed science built over decades, drawn from some of the largest observational datasets in lifestyle medicine. Sauna has earned its place in the same conversation as exercise, sleep, and deliberate nutrition — not as an alternative to these practices, but as a fourth pillar alongside them, with its own distinct mechanisms and measurable outcomes.

Building Heat Tolerance: Endurance, Acclimation, and Where to Start

The longevity benefits of sauna use do not require an athlete's tolerance to begin accumulating. Regular heat exposure also appears to improve endurance — a finding that adds another dimension to its value for those who train. Studies with runners show that those who incorporate regular sauna sessions improve both their time and their distance. The mechanism is heat acclimation: the body, trained to handle thermal stress, responds to physical demand with greater efficiency and sustained performance.

Sauna suits — worn during exercise to simulate the thermal load of a hot room — have been studied as deliberate acclimation tools, with results that support the same principle. Training in heat-trapping garments raises core temperature, accelerates physiological adaptation, and translates into improved endurance over time. The underlying logic is the same that governs all deliberate training: controlled exposure, repeated consistently, produces adaptation that exceeds the original threshold. Heat is a stimulus. The body is designed to respond.

For those new to sauna practice, the entry point is wherever the body currently stands. A sedentary person, unacclimated to heat, stepping into a room at 175°F may last only five minutes before needing to leave. That is not failure — it is the precise boundary of where current adaptation ends. The discomfort is the signal; it marks the edge of capacity, not a ceiling. Starting there, and returning regularly, is the correct approach.

With consistent practice, that threshold rises. One of the earliest and most reliable signs of acclimation is sweating at a lower core temperature — the body begins cooling itself earlier, managing heat duration with less physiological strain. Sessions that once felt difficult become manageable, then routine. Duration extends naturally, without force. This is adaptation working exactly as designed: deliberate stress, absorbed gradually, converted into capacity.

The practical protocol is direct. Begin with shorter sessions — ten to fifteen minutes — and allow acclimation to develop across several weeks before extending duration. Frequency matters more than any single extended session; building toward four visits per week is the goal the evidence most consistently supports as the inflection point for meaningful health outcomes.

Hydrate well before and after each session. Honor the signals the body gives, particularly in the early weeks, when tolerance is still being built. Sauna at its best is a deliberate practice — intentional, consistent, and built over time. The data points toward a clear destination; the path there is one session at a time.

What the Finnish data, the acclimation research, and the cardiovascular literature share is a single underlying truth: the body responds to heat. It adapts, improves, and builds protection in response to a stimulus it was always designed to encounter. Four sessions per week is not an arbitrary target — it is the frequency at which the data most consistently shows the deepest protective effect across every measured outcome. That is the threshold worth building toward. Everything below it is progress.

Wim's Wise Words

A second take, from someone who's lived it.

The numbers are compelling — but what the research cannot give you is the internal texture of the practice. How it changes over time. What to feel for.

Four sessions a week sounds like a commitment. It is. But the sessions start to feel different from each other, and that difference matters. An evening session — after the day is done, when the mind is still running — does something a morning session does not quite reach. The heat pulls you out of thought. Not through technique or effort, but through the simple fact that temperature demands your full attention. Twenty minutes of that and you arrive somewhere quieter than where you started. I mention this not because any study has measured it, but because you will likely discover it yourself — and it is worth knowing in advance so you do not mistake it for coincidence.

The first sign that acclimation is working is that sweating comes sooner. You step in and within a few minutes your skin opens. That early response — the body getting ahead of the heat instead of fighting it — is the clearest marker of progress. Trust it more than a timer.

What to feel for inside the practice

There is a version of discomfort that is the heat doing its work, and a version that is a signal to exit. They feel different. The productive kind is a full-body warmth, a slight heaviness, the sense that everything is slowing. The other version carries urgency — a note of nausea, or the sudden feeling that you need to be somewhere else. Trust the second. Leaving early is not failure; it is the body being precise about where today's adaptation ends.

One clarification on dose: frequency matters more than any single extended session. The cardiovascular adaptation this research describes is cumulative — the body needs to encounter the stimulus again before the last session's adaptation has fully faded. Four times a week means something that ninety minutes on a single weekend day does not.

If you want to go deeper into the cardiovascular mechanisms — arterial elasticity, plasma volume, the blood pressure response — the FoundMyFitness exploration of sauna and heart health covers that ground in detail.

None of this replaces sleep, and none of it replaces movement. Sauna belongs alongside those practices, not instead of them. The Finns did not have population studies telling them this was working. They had the practice, and they kept it. Start where your tolerance is. Return often. The adaptation builds in that direction.

Unlocking the Power of Sauna: A Pathway to Longevity and Well-Being

What the Finnish Studies Actually Show

Sauna Benefits Deep Dive and Optimal Use with Dr Rhonda Patrick MedCram

The Exercise Mimic: How Heat Stresses the Cardiovascular System

Brain Health, Dementia, and the Case for Health Span

Building Heat Tolerance: Endurance, Acclimation, and Where to Start

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